Subject: Bug#764122: MnSymbol and new[tp]x shouldn't be in the texlive-fonts-extra ghetto

From: Juliusz Chroboczek <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:07:06 +0200

Package: texlive-fonts-extra
Version: 2014.20140927-1
Severity: wishlist

Hi again, Norbert.

So here I am, writing my lecture notes on a machine on which I don't
usually TeX.  My personal format fails with an error about MnSymbol not
found, so I do

  $ apt-cache search mnsymbol
  texlive-fonts-extra - TeX Live: Additional fonts

Ouch.  200MB download, 600MB disk space.

Norbert, there are three font packages that are very useful when you're
trying to work around the lack of maths fonts -- these are newtx, newpx
and MnSymbol.  I really think they should be extracted from the
texlive-fonts-extra ghetto.

Sorry for the underful hbox in the paragraph above, I'm too lazy to reword
it.  Thanks for listening,

-- Juliusz

---

From: Norbert Preining <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 09:14:10 +0900

Hi Juliusz,

> texlive-fonts-extra ghetto.

Please propose this to TeX Live mailing list:
	[email-masked]
I follow upstream collections to the word, and will not start
extracting and moving single packages, as long as this is not
done upstream in TeX Live.

I know that the big -extra collections are a bit a pain, but
I don't see many different options, but packaging each unit
by itself, which was rejected years ago (would increase the
number of Debian packages by 5000 or so .... not good out of
various reasons).

Hope that helps

Norbert

------------------------------------------------------------------------
PREINING, Norbert                               http://www.preining.info
JAIST, Japan                                 TeX Live & Debian Developer
GPG: 0x860CDC13   fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0  ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
------------------------------------------------------------------------

---

From: Juliusz Chroboczek <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:24:48 +0200

> I follow upstream collections to the word,

I've always known you're a wise man.

> Please propose this to TeX Live mailing list:

No way -- I'm on way too many mailing lists already.  I'll be very
grateful if you do that for me.

-- Juliusz

---

From: Norbert Preining <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 22:44:36 +0900

Hi Juliusz,

> I've always known you're a wise man.

Hahaha, "Honig um den Mund schmieren"? Your German should be good enough
to understand this ;-)

> grateful if you do that for me.

No need to subscribe, just add "please Cc me" ... if you don't do it,
I *MIGHT* do it at some point in the future ;-)

Enjoy

Norbert

---

From: Juliusz Chroboczek <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 15:57:23 +0200

> Hahaha, "Honig um den Mund schmieren"?

Nein, ich bin dead serious.  I keep begging my downstreams to avoid
distro-specific patches as much as possible, and to put their
modifications upstream.  (Especially since there've been cases where I've
replaced dozens of lines of distro-specific shell scripts by a few lines
of upstream code.)

>> No way -- I'm on way too many mailing lists already.

> No need to subscribe, just add "please Cc me" ...

No way.  You start by sending an innocent message, and you end up being
one of the main developers.

> if you don't do it, I *MIGHT* do it at some point in the future ;-)

Please.

-- Juliusz

---

From: Norbert Preining <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 21:49:53 +0900

Hi everyone at tl,

we got a bug report down here at Debian suggestion to move
newtx and newpx to a different collection. As I follow upstream
TeX Live in this respect, I forward it to the list.

Please Cc your answers to the included Ccs.

> texlive-fonts-extra ghetto.

Thanks

Norbert

---

From: Philip Taylor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 14:00:18 +0100

In 2014, 200MB is noise level.  I can see no reason whatsoever to factor
out some subset of this.

Philip Taylor

---

From: [email-masked] (Karl Berry)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 21:22:50 GMT

Do what you want in Debian, of course.  (Do you exactly 100% follow the
TL collection constituents now?)

For TL, I see that c-fontsrecommended has txfonts and pxfonts.  Perhaps
I should exchange those with the newtx and newpx in extra, but I'm not
sure.  I have a feeling that an awful lot of documents use the original
*xfonts and it would just create needless churn.  Michael (Sharpe), do
you have an opinion here?

I don't want to just randomly add things to c-fontsrecommended.

karl

---

From: Norbert Preining <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 08:01:25 +0900

> TL collection constituents now?)

Yes, we follow it 100% (besides leaving out a few packages that
are packaged separately).

> I don't want to just randomly add things to c-fontsrecommended.

I agree. Only if there is good reason.

Norbert