I've discovered that the people I most enjoy being around are those that are authentically optimistic. Not those that are blind to everything negative, and not those who are faking it to ameliorate themselves, but those who are encouraged by the opportunity for a better tomorrow. Astonishingly, these are often people that have suffered overwhelming personal tragedy. I've also noticed that the more time I spend around these people, the more emotionally resilient I become myself to difficulties.
There seems to be common sentiment that being optimistic is somehow ignorant or otherwise insidious. Maybe this is true, but I am already too familiar with the acute pain that comes with a life entrenched in pessimism to allow myself to fall into that spiral.
"A cynic is never wrong, but an optimist is always right" is a saying my friends and I have. Chronic pessimists and cynics often see and say much truth about the world. But the optimists will succeed much more in their goals, business, relationships, and many other parts of life. They have a deeper set of values and philosophy that is more right, even if they get the particulars wrong sometimes.
There are tons of comments online that claim emotionally secure and mature people are ignorant or even irresponsible if they're not in perpetual anxiety about the world. The "you should be scared with the way the world is" type. Obviously, what they claim is not true, and it's very unhealthy. But someone who is emotionally secure understands they gain nothing from a neurotic debate online, so they don't call these opinions out. The opinions remain there, unchallenged, seemingly agreeable and prevalent.
Life entrenched in pessimism is also a bit contagious. Though I don't want to be unkind, I have to be honest: there is a limit to how much I can try to help someone with that mindset before they drag me down with them. Something I learned studying field medicine (and this isn't some secret in the first responder world or just general knowledge) is that you protect your safety first. If you arrive in a situation and add yourself to the casualty list, you are just not helping anyone: you get hurt, and you create more work. I think this applies not only to physical hazards, but also to emotional ones. One more depressed person in the world does not make it a better place for anyone.
It makes sense to exercise some caution, and most of our emotional brains understand that. This brings me back to the original point — it's hard for one to succeed anywhere if everyone's avoiding them (best case scenario) or being turned negative themselves (worst case scenario). Much remains to be said about the internet's role in this epidemic of negativity and various depressive disorder crises.
Ah yes the "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention" crowd. As if being pissed-off and scared is the highest acme of civic participation. Outrage and fear are, at best, merely the initial reaction before getting off your ass and actually doing something to change things. Sitting around in perpetual outrage is actually a maladaptive reaction and the mark of someone who has chosen to be completely impotent and powerless. Usually because they don't want the burden of taking responsibility. And hey, if that's the decision you've made, fine, you have your reasons, but then that means presumably you make peace with that decision and stop complaining. And certainly you don't shame others for what you clearly see as your own failings. It's kind of a shit or get off the pot situation.
You can find out who is right the most by seeing who wins the most prediction contests. Those are the realists. The optimists and pessimists, by contrast, are living in imaginary worlds.
I speak about the core philosophy or set of values more. Both people who are generally pessimistic in their world view and typically optimistic can be jolly and grouchy, depending on their mood. I am talking more about their overarching outlook.
The parent comment to my original comment mentioned people who are "fake" optimists. I would describe them as jolly or bubbly often, but ultimately pessimistic. That's why their positivity feels disingenuous. It is a facade or a mask. I appreciate their effort, I am simply drawing a distinction between jolly/grouchy and optimistic/pessimistic.
> Astonishingly, these are often people that have suffered overwhelming personal tragedy.
It sounds cliche, but a pair of the most powerful people I’ve known (in terms of personality) are near death survivors.
One was in a small plane crash, the other was a SEAL that went into Grenada. He had rather long scar on his neck.
Very positive people, almost, but not quite, devil may care.
And it brings to mind a line from an early episode from “The Expanse”, where a character nearly died and, later returned on a dangerous mission. About how he should have died before, and now he was on bonus time.
I’m not convinced folks can talk themselves into the mindset that may come from experiences like that. It’s old news, we’ve all heard it. But, most of us, seemingly, are unconvinced.
I've known quite a few guys who are hopelessly bad with women. You know the type, couldn't get a date in brothel. I'm pleased to say all the ones I'm still in contact with have figured things out by now, but all of them had one thing in common: they were miserable people, always complaining.
I can offer a piece of advice to men who think they are similar: do not ever talk to anyone about things you don't like. Just don't. Talk about things you do like. This is not to say you should be a pushover, but music you don't like does not need to mentioned really ever.
In my experience women tend more towards being realistic and possibly pessimistic. But for both sexes the best way to not be negative is to be ignorant. Ignorance is bliss. It's up to each individual to decide whether being ignorant is really a good life, though.
Is this advice in relation to dating and talking to women? If so, I’d agree. I can’t imagine most people want to hear endless complaints from their first few dates.
That said, not complaining ever won’t get you anywhere either. (Even in a relationship, complaining is important if you’re suffering) A lot of times, a lack of complaining and being unaware of solutions is what results in you living a shit life forever. Complaining can be incredibly productive and healthy - especially if you’re focused on solutions. Obviously, complaining that energy isn’t free or how the sun is going to swallow us whole isn’t super productive… but there are many things worth complaining about.
Personally I like to think about this in terms of the reward asymmetry. In most situations if you’re cynical or pessimistic and you turn out to be right, you don’t really gain much. If you’re an optimist, and keep betting or grinding sensibly, you’ll eventually be right and there’s much to gain potentially.
I do think that effort over time makes a difference here, though. I remember this from an interview with Ruby Sales that stuck with me (I don't know the origin of the phrase, but this is where I heard it): https://pca.st/episode/2240f0ef-004f-45cc-9e77-0a10b9905530
I love everybody.
I love everybody in my heart.
And you can't make me hate you.
And you can't make me hate you.
I think of it less like "trying to be optimistic" as much as "making sure I pause long enough to see the optimistic thoughts that are there"
> Astonishingly, these are often people that have suffered overwhelming personal tragedy.
I remember once I got into a really nice conversation with a charming old guy in a coffee shop. He was markedly optimistic and he really left an impression on me. At the end of our conversation, I found out he was a Nazi death camp survivor.
i posit that the term optimism in its common usage conflates hope and delusion , hope being a subset of delusion that is consciously utilised in stimulating behaviour percieved to bring one closer to their goals , as opposed to a collapse of agency into pure fantasy disconnected from reality ... by demarcating these two concepts it is shown that optimism groups potentials both insidious and beautiful ... as usual, evidenciary of good and bad not being mutually exclusive ...
> By not being aware of having a shadow, you declare a part of your personality to be non-existent. Then it enters the kingdom of the non-existent, which swells up and takes on enormous proportions…If you get rid of qualities you don’t like by denying them, you become more and more unaware of what you are, you declare yourself more and more non-existent, and your devils will grow fatter and fatter.
You can't "optimism away" the "negative" emotions. You just bury them, but they continue to live in your system, and find their own ways out eventually.
It's easy to fall into the trap of endless negativity. It's also easy to fall into the trap of toxic positivity, where you refuse to process pain or the "negative" because you're trying so hard to force the positive.
> If you’re optimistic then you don’t have negative emotions
You cannot totally rid yourself of these emotions.
Jung's point is that the negative emotions are there, just hidden from view. I actually think that "negative" is inaccurate, to be honest. Jung referring to it as the Shadow works better. These emotions aren't evil demons that should be expunged at the altar of optimism. They're parts of ourselves that need to be integrated.
> You can't "optimism away" the "negative" emotions. You just bury them, but they continue to live in your system, and find their own ways out eventually.
Sadness, anger, grief, loneliness, fear, these are all emotions that are part of being human, and they don't just go away (they just get buried or bypassed).
They're also emotions that contribute to the richness of being human, and shouldn't go away. Instead they should be understood and integrated into the whole.
The way text resizes on that website is so strange. It's actually amazing how awful it is. Like they went out of their way to ensure it resizes in the most ridiculous possible manner. And the zoom on my browser does nothing. Absolutely amazing.
Yea, wow. The very first thing I do on most websites is CMD-+ to make the text larger and to make it fit my browser window horizontally, and somehow this site managed to be so bad that it prevents even that. I don't know how we keep furthering this trend of having a web site be a 5 inch wide strip of tiny font text down the middle of the browser window, with double that in whitespace on either side.
Presumably the article would be used as ammo in an argument with his wife. Doing that is a good way to break a relationship. Not saying that is what happened, but that is what the commenter meant.
I'm living (temporarily) with someone who obsessively watches the news on TV. And not the good news. The trashy, commercial-channel news.
'Oh who cares about this rubbish!', they'll say to the screen. Or 'who cares about these people, why do we need to see this?', or 'why do we give these people attention?'.
As someone who identifies as an optimist – and who hasn't watched any form of TV news in decades – I find it interesting.
It's easy to feel like you have a responsibility to be informed, and as a result you have to be drinking from the fire hose all the time. I noticed myself getting into that habit and that it was dragging me down to places I didn't want to be. After spending some time thinking about it I came to the conclusion that there are very very very few things that happen in this world that would change for the worse if I didn't find out about it until a week later. As a result there's no need to be plugged in 24/7. I can get updates on things once or so a week and the world will go on exactly as it would have if I was plugged in every day, but my mental health will be much better. Bonus is that I don't have to wade through the fog of "breaking news", I can get a more accurate and complete picture the first time rather than drips and drabs over a week.
I’d been a cynical and nervous wreck for early part of my life. And I still get episodes of paralysing gloom and doom. Something I often I tell myself is “despite” all the [negative things], I will be a positive force in the world and that is something to be proud of. It is easy to be positive during good times and it is difficult to be positive in hard times, but it’s worth it _because_ it’s hard. I’ve never been a religious person, but I’ve been thinking more and more about religious allegories and how it fits this mindset.
Anyhow, there is something about the word “despite”(그럼에도) that rings my soul. So I mutter it to myself all the time.
Isn’t this article complaining about complaints? Does that make it paradoxical?
I think complaints, even gossipy ones, hold value. I agree with the general premise that it’s easier to complain, but in the hotel towel footnote honestly I’d complain to my friends because it’s a story to tell, not because I expect them to actually avoid the hotel. Misery loves company.
"This deserves improvement" and "this deserves complaining and I will refuse to enjoy it" are two independent conclusions that don't need to come together.
I doubt think the article is doing the former, while you're suggesting that it can't come without implying the latter.
I'm firmly convinced that some people can only be happy while making others miserable. Choosing to be happy when they're determined to ruin your day will drive them nuts.
Blanket complaining about complaining without any reservation is hypocritical.[1]
It presupposes that all complaining is just to be negative. But people also complain in order to vent. And it isn’t just selfish. Venting can be cathartic for both parties.
There’s a psychological and social component to complaining. And denying that is just negative-nancy complaining.
Sorry, it was similar enough that you triggered my automatic "tolerance is not a paradox" response. I'm sure you weren't trying to justify all forms of "complaining" with pseudo-intellectual BS so, please forgive me for lashing out :)
I agree, there's a funny thing about it, but to me it's more optimistic ;) It's like a very good point is being made, it's not perfect but, somehow, that point could be used to sharpen itself.
Getting stuck in traffic is a terrible experience because you're almost entirely helpless. The only choice you have is whether or not to complain. Complaining can be very cathartic, but it can also get you down. If you can't help but complain—or won't let yourself complain—your single degree of freedom is lost, and you become totally helpless.
I wouldn't say "don't complain"—just be mindful about complaining. It's a choice worth thinking about.
> There is, for example, a common sentiment among younger generations that their ability to purchase a home is completely out of their hands. [...] Some of those talking points might be true. But are they useful?
This is an unfortunate type of anti-politics. It actually does matter whether this is true—it affects how we run our society. Dwelling on unpleasant truths is not good for you, but ignoring them is bad for all of us.
<< The point is that someone in bad circumstances can focus on the task
There is something to be said about being able to focus on something other than your immediate surroundings. This one guy[1], for example, was apparently focused on the task of infiltrating Auschwitz.
"I wish there were more good role models of this behavior. Or maybe there are, and I’m too much of a grouchy complainer to see them. Who comes to mind for you?"
> Choosing optimism may feel cheesy, even embarrassing, at first.
Just go on the hike. Tell others you're going if you'd like, maybe they'll go too, but saying "it might be fun..." feels something like a complaint. "I pride myself on being optimistic, so of course I have to mention how everyone else is being pessimistic." That's why it feels embarrassing.
This guy decided that people fall into two categories: those who always complain and those who never do. But in reality, people might complain about some things while being quite satisfied with others, so it’s not a binary state. And if there’s no binary state, the point of the article falls apart.
It depends. If someone complains about something and then fixes it, I’ll take them over the toxic optimist. There is nothing inherently wrong with complaining, what matters is the intent behind it. A complaint can be constructive, mean, funny, or any other number of good or bad things.
I mostly agree but sometimes you have to complain and persistently too:
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
Optimism, pessimism, meh. In the tradition of tech, I choose skepticism. Two old guys ordering champagne on flights, a couple weeks apart, perfectly embodying the issue of the essay? Reads like a Just So story to me, better suited to LinkedIn.
Kind of ironic that TFA came after their previous piece.
>I Literally Don’t Know
>TL;DR: You don’t need to pick my brain, or probably anyone’s brain, for general life advice. It won’t help.
Overall the Optimism piece is just long-form LinkedIn garbage. What insights does it present? Complaining bad, optimism good, not all complaining is bad, but complaining is mostly bad? OK..
Improvements rarely start with "I'm satisfied with this". Writing off complaining because one conflates complaining with misery is silly.
> Improvements rarely start with "I'm satisfied with this". Writing off complaining because one conflates complaining with misery is silly.
I've found improvements rarely start with complaining either. Or maybe it's more accurate to say that people I know that are complainers are rarely the source of improvements. They're usually too busy complaining about the situation and the proposed solutions to pick one.
Improvements most often come from a mindset of "this thing is not the way I want it to be, so what am I going to do to change that?" Sometimes "complain to someone with the ability to change it" is the right answer, but usually you have some degree of agency yourself and it's a lot more effective to exercise that agency than to get someone else to act on your behalf in response to your complaints.
I see it like a scale of how easy it is to deal with a problem.
The easiest thing is to stew and do nothing. Next easiest thing is to is to sit around and complain. After that comes actually doing something about the problem.
I think efficient, productive, optimistic people are people who don't have the ramp up time of stewing and complaining, and it becomes self perpetuating: they have a better life that's easy to be optimistic about because problems get solved by themselves without issues ("complaints").
Improvements start because someone has a better solution to a problem, not just complaining about the current solution. We should implement x because it fixes these problems with current solution. Rather than just current solution is bad.
hmmm, the example of people complaining about Disney Star Wars - they took something beloved and shat on it for cheap $ - I'd like the people watching a new Star Wars to get the wonder I got out of eps 4-5-6. The fact that the ruined that feels worth mentioning. That said, I just wrote it out of my life and moved on.
Is the South Park episode about Indiana Jones ep4 complaing?
Being optimistic is normally a good strategy for success, but it doesn't feel appropriate in dire circumstances, such as at the onset of World War 2. 70+ million people died, not to mention all the injuries, crimes, and environmental destruction. Saying "Think positive, the Allies will win!" in 1939 would have rung hollow. Instead of optimism, there needs to be a grim determination.
I put that statement to ChatGPT, and it reminded me of Churchill's "We Shall Fight on the Beaches"[0] speech, which is defiant, rather than optimistic.
Once again we seem to be in dire circumstances, on the brink of colossal ruin, owing the the whims of a handful toxic people, and the ignorance of so many who put them into power. I'm not at all optimistic, but I can try for grim determination.
Optimism vs pessimism is a false dichotomy. Anyone can phrase any question in the format of a yes/no or as for/against, and this is very frequently just a way of controlling the entire direction of the conversation.
A realist would talk about pros/cons together, possibly in equal measure, and possibly not, and will actively resist absolute categorization of the remarks. A skeptic would ask, is your specific degree of optimism/pessimism on this thing warranted, and is this even the thing we want to be talking about? By comparison.. Why would you ever want to talk to an optimist or a pessimist, much less aspire to be either one?
Frankly, I just don't see how any sort of optimism can survive the moment you step out of the house.
It goes beyond the internet. The real world is an excruciating parade of torture, and no amount of self-platitudes or of positive thoughts will change the reality of the situation.
Sure, you can try and not have anxiety. Live in the moment. But someone is eventually going to take advantage of that and you'll be worse off. That can only happen so many times before you start reevaluating your thoughts, intentions aside.
Personally, the only times I've ever felt good about the world and how everything was going to be okay have been when I'm using opioids, hidden away in a corner of my room.
Today is rainy and windy. I look forward to going outside with the missus for a moment to plant a few trees. That won't change the fact that my knees are hurting, that the economy sucks, or that our eastern neighbor is waging a genocidal war upon another neighboring country. I'll get a bit of excersise though, and get to spend time with my beloved wife. And to plant trees, which brings us closer to realising our dream about having a backyard forest AND being good for the environment.
Neither will offset or do anything about the global inflation, or the famine in Sudan. Sitting inside and worrying about those things won't change it either.
In the end, it's a matter of convincing yourself to do something that goes against your instinctive responses, and then learn from that experience and hopefully re-train said instinctive responses. This is neither easy nor quick, and there will be times when you will feel like an idiot for trying to convince yourself to see something in a positive light. But once you manage, even for a few short moments, it will make you feel better. Losing hope won't.
Just yesterday I went to the shop. A man was carrying an animal to the vet. He said g'day on his way past. Then I had a nice chat with the lady at the post office about her kid's birthday this weekend. I'd overheard her telling the previous customer about it, so I continued the conversation despite being a stranger to her.
Then I tried to buy a slab of beer at a place but it was too expensive. Had a nice chat to the lady there though.
That was about all. A quiet day. But really lovely. Nobody took advantage. Nothing bad happened. No woes or tribulations. Just a nice day with reasonable weather.
> A man was carrying an animal to the vet. He said g'day on his way past. Then I had a nice chat with the lady at the post office about her kid's birthday this weekend.
And these shallow almost-no-effort-required conversations are what convince you that everything is good? For some, people making these polite conversations to hide the awfulness of life itself is maddening.
Not that such interaction is bad, but try to build on them to create any sort of meaningful relationship and see what happens.
> Nobody took advantage. Nothing bad happened. No woes or tribulations.
For you. I bet you many people were taken advantage of, killed, died from lack of food, were verbally abused, neglected emotionally, etc... that day
I will happily read concrete advice on how to be optimistic and less negative. It’s amazing how much of your day—could be your whole day—can be preoccupied with negative thoughts. That just go nowhere; worry is negativity without action or planning. So let’s hear that. Journaling? Practicing the m-word?
But this article provides nothing. I was thinking that the article might have a clickbait “just do it” because they have some neat hack to switch your perspective. They don’t. Just be the opposite of a complainer.
Not to mention that complaining has a social and psychological function. Do you have any idea how terrible it is to live in an environment where you think certain things are awful but airing it seems impossible because, you know, it might just be you? Then someone else complains to you and you realize that you’re not alone? Well of course you have. That’s the human experience unless you are a complete optimistic outlier.
Complaining in moderation serves a function. Yes and I do mean complaining. Not just matter of factly bringing up issues in an objective manner and then perishing the negative thoughts to the void.[1] There are socially appropriate ways to complain (like to your friends about the hotel, not venting to random hotel staff).
And if you complain too much you need to cut down on that. But this article won’t help with that.
> There is, for example, a common sentiment among younger generations that their ability to purchase a home is completely out of their hands. The boomer generation fucked them, the government isn’t helping, and that’s that. No home, no retirement. People complain as if it’s already been decided.
Who’s really the 60-year-old champagne drinker here?
[1] Do they really perish though? Or do they stew subconsciously?
After 40+ years of life experience I understand why some people fall to their knees daily and beg for mercy. If getting champagne or a latte or whatever is enough to scratch your itch I applaud you. I envy you.
> Complaining is so normalized in most social circles
This is a straw man.
Complaining isn't the opposing pole of positivity or optimism. Negativity and pessimism are, and these absolutely are not "normalized."
Try criticizing something someone likes. Try telling someone their favorite book, album, or movie is terrible. Or just try disagreeing with them. If that person was a friend, the chances are good that they won't be any longer.
Sometimes the people who are willing to say these kinds of things have revolting personalities. Sometimes they're pretentious twats. These people should be shunned.
People who are willing to say "you're full of shit" or just "I disagree" in a healthy, honest, unostentatious way perform a valuable service by making it permissible to voice opposing views.
> Flying over the Alps
> Years ago, I was on a vacation with some people in the Alps
Oh, please. Spare me.
Grammar-policing fell out of fashion long ago, fortunately. I look forward eagerly to the day positivity-policing does as well. Sanctimonious nonsense.
Don't know why you are being down-voted, but your comment is spot on. Of course being a complainer just by nature or for the fun of it is not constructive.
But oh my, it amazes to no end how fragile the egos of people in general are.
To be fair to other users, I was rightly downvoted, I think, for a less-than-constructive "go fuck yourself," which I've since replaced with "spare me."
There seems to be common sentiment that being optimistic is somehow ignorant or otherwise insidious. Maybe this is true, but I am already too familiar with the acute pain that comes with a life entrenched in pessimism to allow myself to fall into that spiral.
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