Warning: Neither legalreads.com nor coinread.com are legal free ebook sources, they are standard search engines for illegitimate downloads. js951534 repeatedly links to these sites.
See the search bar at top of page that says "Search Books" thats a sample of the underlying database, you dont need to login to download books from this site, tho loging in gives more choice, use a disposable account anyways not your primary its a good security precaution anyways
Odd - I just get redirected to coinreads - no chance to view the legalreads page, which I then mistook for a ___domain squatters site. I see that it does infact work - though from the content it doesn't seem exactly 'legal'.
The faster PayPal dies the better, those guys are real scumbags, imagine if a bank could just freeze your account like these people do, worse than that they are not even regulated like a bank!
Would you trust your money to a private company that acts like a bank but is not regulated like one?
Banks and PayPal are regulated to the same degree. Banks do freeze merchant accounts exactly the same way PayPal freezes accounts, for exactly the same reasons, for exactly the same periods of time. They have exactly the same policies because these policies come down from the Visa and MasterCard Operating Regulations that both banks and PayPal are bound to.
PayPal is licensed in all 50 states and is a registered bank in more than a handful of countries. Whatever difference you think there would be if they were also a bank in the US, instead of just having their accounts underwritten by two banks (JP Morgan Chase and Wells Fargo NA), I don't think that difference exists.
@dkl: I'd like to reply to your comment but it's [dead] and there's no contact info in your bio. The answer should be fairly obvious if you think about it, and has been discussed on HN in virtually every previous thread about PayPal. I've had my own merchant account underwritten by the largest private bank in the United States frozen in the past.
I disagree. PayPal is NOT regulated as a bank in the United States. Here is an article from 2002 when they received the official word that they would not be regulated as a bank:
They _are_ regulated as a money transferral service. I work for a bank and I can assure you that the level of scrutiny by banking regulators is _far_ greater. As a single for-instance, the auditors have asked to see documentation of our software development methodology (presumably to ensure there were procedures in place to ensure applications were built securely and without an opportunity for an attacker to check in some kind of back-door).
Technically you can't assure us that banks face greater scrutiny unless you can also describe reliably the level of scrutiny that paypal falls under - or is it common knowledge that paypal doesn't get this kind of audit? I'd be interested in reading a good description of paypal security auditing, if there's anything available.
It is commonly spoken of in the banking industry (where I work). I do not recall speaking with anyone who had firsthand knowledge of audits at PayPal (I've never discussed this with someone who worked there), but I do know that the level of scrutiny of a money transfer service is much less than that for a bank.
Can you provide citations? I have read that paypal is regulated far less (in the USA), and I am fairly certain that paypal is not a bank in the USA.
One example I can think of: a bank's customers can be plaintiffs in a class suit against the bank, but as of next month paypal's customers won't be able to be in one against paypal.
I have never had my merchant account frozen for any period of time. There was once an issue when I first opened it. They called me, I told them what transactions had occured and why. They accepted it and continued on. In no time during that process did they stop payments or funds from being received. It's a big difference. They check with the business owner before they do something, not after like PayPal.
It's really quite rude to publicly call someone a liar without evidence, and by saying it doesn't happen after I said it's happened to me, you're calling me a liar. Your single anecdotal experience does not define the entire industry, especially in the face of both experiences and plain contract terms that state otherwise.
Take a look at the contract you signed to open your merchant account. Look for the words "risk reserve" or "reserve account". That's where money goes when the account is being reviewed or is reclassified as higher risk but isn't being terminated. Frozen PayPal accounts that aren't being terminated can still accept payments, they just can't withdraw money -- it's the same situation as a merchant account provider holding funds in a reserve account.
Here's some verbiage I copied straight out of one such contract:
9.16 RESERVE ACCOUNT
In addition to the security interest and chargeback rights granted to Bank by Merchant, Merchant hereby authorizes Bank to establish a Reserve Account, with or without prior notice to Merchant, at any time prior to, at or after termination of this Agreement, to ensure Bank’s recovery of any liabilities owed it or reasonably anticipated to be owed it by Merchant pursuant to this Agreement.
Such liabilities include, but are not limited to, those arising out of actual and/or potential post-termination chargebacks, as well as any and all post-termination fees, including, but not limited to, costs for accounting, investigation and account management, charges and expenses due or anticipated to be due Bank from Merchant.
Merchant agrees that if Bank does establish the Reserve Account, it shall be in any amount that Bank, in its sole discretion, deems reasonable under the circumstances. The Reserve Account may be funded and/or replenished by Bank’s withholding or withdrawing from, or freezing all or any part of, the Commercial Account and/or accounts maintained by Merchant with Bank. Unless Bank agrees otherwise in writing with Merchant, the Reserve Account shall not bear interest.
Bank may enforce its security interest in the Reserve Account without notice or demand. Bank’s right to sums owed it by Merchant pursuant to this Agreement shall in no way be limited by the balance or existence of the Reserve Account. Bank’s rights with respect to the Reserve Account, as well as the security interest granted Bank under this Agreement, shall survive the termination of this Agreement.
As it says, your account may be frozen, funds may be withheld, the account can be established unilaterally without notice. Standard merchant account agreement. It's not there for no reason.
Many businesses don't have a direct relationship with the bank that underwrites their merchant account. They get the account from an MSP/ISO and some bank underwrites those accounts. It's the underwriting bank that does things like establish a risk reserve without notice because a big chargeback came in and that flagged your account for a review. When that happens, there is no opportunity for the MSP/ISO to contact you and talk it through first -- the freeze isn't placed by them and can't be removed by them. They'll tell you about it, and perhaps help convince the bank to remove it, but that'll happen after.
I think the important distinction is that banks will not open accounts without reasonable documentation of identity.
So, even if banks and paypal freeze accounts for the exact same reasons, paypal will do it much more, because they have less confidence in the identity of the account owner.
That's seemingly the purpose of most temporary freezes. They ask for identification and a description of what you're selling with the account, and if the response is satisfactory, unfreeze the account.
Banks do their underwriting up front, PayPal delays it until some kind of event triggers it (whether it's a spike in processing volume, a change in average ticket size, or buyer complaints). Since we only read about an incident or two a month, most people probably never hit one of those triggers, only using their accounts for eBay purchases and the like.
When an account starts looking risky, or starts looking like a real business, they get treated like one -- the sudden need for documentation is the jarring part, and the sudden loss of the account if underwriting doesn't approve of the business the cause of the dissatisfaction.
I'd bet the whole process could be made a lot less antagonistic with just a change to wording -- better explanation of what's going on, why PayPal wants the documents now that they didn't ask for before, and the fact that a temporary freeze doesn't mean you're losing your funds or won't be able to continue processing.
I think the point of confusion revolves around the definition of a (real) "business".
If someone accepts paypal payments for a garage sale or transient lemonade stand, is that a real business?
People accept cash and checks for many things that might be considered commercial, and banks don't have a problem with low volumes of commercial-transaction-related deposits being made to personal accounts. It's primarily the account owner's responsibility to pay taxes and do any other necessary reporting. I believe banks do primary reporting for money laundering and terrorism purposes and back-up reporting for tax purposes, but none of that generally involves freezing accounts.
People expect paypal to work like an easier means of check or cash payment, and when it turns out it doesn't work like that and the account gets frozen, people are understandably pissed off. The commercial/private transaction distinction is fairly arbitrary to begin with.