My wife died 10 years ago, so I understand that pain. Dealing with death is never easy. The thing I miss most about my wife is the depth of emotional connection; she knew everything about me being very deeply in love with me and everything I did really mattered to her. It has taken me nearly 10 years to build a network of friends who can give me comparable levels of socialization and attention; I have about two dozen very close friends (both male and female) across the world now and it’s finally enough to replace the hole in my life I had which my wife used to fill.
I can see why Feynman became sexually promiscuous afterwards, undoubtedly to numb the pain of losing his wife; seduction allowed him to have a form of that connection, albeit without the depth and love of what he had with his wife. While that path looked appealing to me, I do not regret avoiding that temptation.
> I can see why Feynman became sexually promiscuous afterwards, undoubtedly to numb the pain of losing his wife; seduction allowed him to have a form of that connection, albeit without the depth and love of what he had with his wife.
He married again in 1952 and divorced in 1958 (and married again a couple of years later).
I don't know if sexual promiscuity was part of the divorce complaint but apparently this fragment was in it: "He begins working calculus problems in his head as soon as he awakens. He did calculus while driving in his car, while sitting in the living room, and while lying in bed at night."
After reading lots of biographical material on Feynman it seems like he was a very loving father and husband (especially to his first wife) but obviously devoted to physics. I would imagine it's very difficult to find the balance between his kind of career and family such that the family feels they get sufficient attention.
I imagine it's because of the lure of pure-research and self-actualization and pursuing an area of study with almost no limitations. No idea if this is true or not, but this is how I idealize academia.
Opposed to "industry" -- where you're under constant pressure to figure out why some random docker container pull fails or mutating web hook won't let your pod be deleted. It's just not fun or meaningful. It's a slog and the needless complexity is doing nothing but increasing.
Yes, I think academics are susceptible to defining themselves by their work, truly being to devoted to their subject and it's open ended so you can spend as much time as you choose on it.
I think these things can all be true in industry though. I say this as an industry researcher myself that has struggled with work/life balance my whole career. In the more soul destroying industry jobs hopefully you can at least clock out at 5pm and pay attention to other interests, i.e. you don't have to care about work outside of work hours.
I actually think it's more to do with the person than the job though. It's about how much you value work/career achievements and recognition vs family vs hobbies. Caveat: some people genuinely have to work unreasonable amounts of hours to put food on the table for their family and that's unfortunate.
> "He begins working calculus problems in his head as soon as he awakens. He did calculus while driving in his car, while sitting in the living room, and while lying in bed at night."
God, I love this quote. It describes me to a T in my 20s (except replace "calculus" with "programming"). Everyone that I dated complained similarly. I used to drag that Bjarne Stroustrup tome "The C++ Programming Language" everywhere I went. I couldn't get enough of that C++ bible at the time. His writing style really helped to open my mind to become a better programmer.
Iirc at the time there was still "at fault divorce", and the divorce settlement was influenced by who was at fault. So a (likely overly charitable reading) of the entire thing is that Feynman agreed to be portrayed in a bad light to achieve a fairer Deal for his soon to be ex wife.
Maybe it was required to get a divorce at all but otherwise it seems that he could have settled on something “fair” without needing to force himself into it.
> It has taken me nearly 10 years to build a network of friends who can give me comparable levels of socialization and attention;
building close friends as an adult is a known Hard Problem when everyone has their own lives. any big insights or breakthroughs you can share for the rest of us?
I second this. My best friends are still the childhood friends. Every time I'm getting closer with someone new it fails sooner or later because of other duties we already have in life.
Make time for people. Be open. Choose love and kindness. Accept that relationships are a journey and take effort - on both sides.
It won't always work. I've done pretty well at this tbh, but it has helped living in a city like London where soicalising is one of the main activites and easily facilitated - to an extent at least. Context is key, no doubt.
Marathon, not a sprint. Everyone's busy so gradually making yourself a mutual part of another person's life will take time.
I am so happy that you were able to build that emotional connection.
My dad is terminally ill and often I think about what I will miss most when he is no more. And I realized it would be the depth of emotional connection - a person who knows you in and out and unconditionally loves you.
I try to steel myself about the coming eventuality, but all I know is it's going to be a deep abyss and it will take everything to climb out of it.
I lost my mom to cancer when I was 17. She fought with it for 6.5 years prior. Even knowing it was coming it was devastating. 24 years later I still miss her, I'm sure I always will. It hurts knowing that I'm now older than she was when she passed.
When it happened it was the worst emotional pain I had experienced, it does get better in time. Your feelings are valid. You don't have to feel whatever anyone else thinks you should feel. It feels cliche that it gets better in time, in my experience tho it does. I'm sorry your dad and family is going thru that. Oddly I found Cyberpunk 2077 to be therapeutic on coming to terms with that situation. In the game you play a character who essentially has a terminal disease, there are a lot of moments in the game that rang very true to the emotions I experienced.
When your dad eventually departs, you are allowed to feel anything. I have been the type to laugh at a funeral remembering something funny the departed said or did. If you feel like crying that's ok too.
I lost my dad 14 years ago. I hope you get to have as much of the remaining time together as possible.
What's odd is that I still don't feel the need to look at photos of him. Like, no need whatsoever. I don't have a photo of my late dad on the wall, even though we had a truly excellent father-son relationship with a lot of warmth. The true memory of him resides in my head; and what's more, I notice myself replicating his exact body language at times. Explicitly realizing this always feels funny, almost like I want to express gratitude to him for "inheriting" those movements to me :). I think the bonds still hold strong, and they forever will, but, oddly, there's no need whatsoever to visualize it with a photo. It's simply much deeper than that.
On another side, I often miss the ability to ask my dad "factual", practical questions. E.g. -- because he was a construction engineer -- how to do some specific thing in grandpa's house renovations; how to position a beam, etc. During the first months after his death, this was a common recurring thought: I'm stuck while building something, but "hey, I'll just ask dad tomorrow how to do it right; yeah, I'll just call him" -- following by "oh, I forgot I can't". After this, there was always an interesting feeling of emptiness or standstill -- not sadness, just a really deep understanding that, no matter what, life moves on. And I still get to live mine. I actually came to enjoy those moments of emptiness.
Thanks for sharing your story, it is very moving. Grief will have different stages; to me, it has mostly been really deep introspection. Take it easy, mate.
I always felt a sense of betrayal when someone sought a new partner after their spouse dies. But when I read a passage by Freeman Dyson about Feynman's trip to Santa Fe to meet his new girlfriend, my view has significantly shifted. Dyson (or perhaps someone else; I don't recall exactly) spoke of Feynman as someone who cannot stay out of a romantic relationship for too long. Some men just always want to love and be loved.
There is an absolutely heartbreaking(to me at least) moment in the classics in "Sayings of the Spartan Women" when Leonidas is leading his men to Thermophylae to almost certain death at the hands of the Persians his wife asks him what she should do if he dies and he says "Marry a good man, and bear good children."
I think this is amazing. He wants her to lead a happy and full life. I for sure would want that for my wife if I was to die first. I love her to bits and would want her to be happy.
The idea of a couple that belongs together beyond death might sound romantic but is ultimately too tough on the one left behind, especially if the loving couple are separated with the "leftover" still being relatively young.
(On a side note, I'm positively excited to read a quote on HN that dates from about 480 before Christ. It surely is still relevant two and a half thousand years later.)
I've even heard stories where the one who is dying offers advice to the one who will survive about which of their single friends would likely make the best match.
And why not? Who knows the remaining spouse better than the departing one? Who has better insight than that? It seems like a deeply loving thing to do.
Even though her death was sudden and there was no chance to prepare for it, it makes me smile to know my sister's widower married someone who knew and loved my sister too. And it's probably easier for the second spouse this way too, because she does have context for her husband's grief. She also grieves the anniversary of my sister's death, obviously not in the same way, but with an understanding that someone who didn't know my sister would struggle to have.
My partner always tells me that if something happens to me, that's it for him. He doesn't want a relationship with anyone else.
To me, that is the saddest thought in the world. My sincerest hope is that he would find someone else he loves as much as me, and that he would tell her stories about me and let me be a happy memory rather than a sad one.
My uncle's wife remarried years after my uncle died after a long illness. She married a man who, himself, had been similarly widowed. She wore a gray wedding dress to indicate that she had been married before, and they placed two beautiful photos of their late partners behind the altar where they made their vows.
It was really beautiful and inspiring to see them carry on with their lives and love again, while proudly bringing along the memories of the two people they had lost and still loved as well. When I visit them at their home, it is filled with pictures of them with each other and with their late spouses, all intermixed, and it's deeply comforting to me. Even though they never knew each other before they were widowed, they tell me that it feels like they know each other's late spouses as if they had all been good friends together.
If I were the one dying of a long illness, knowing that something like that was on my partner's future would give me a more peaceful death. I wouldn't feel like I was letting him down and ruining his life — just saying goodbye to him in this chapter of his life, while finishing up my own chapter.
I lost my wife to cancer after a brief struggle a year ago.
Everyone is different, and you don’t know what or how you’ll feel unless it happens to you.
For example, at a point, I felt guilty for not being sad. My son and I went to the beach and had a great time. I felt an intense guilt afterwards. But I focused on fitness and other things and tried to make each day better. Time and positive work heals.
In terms of love, etc, the heart has room. Some people are ready before the body is cold, others take years to contemplate a relationship. All i can offer is that as someone who has walked a mile in these shoes, I’d never cast a negative judgement on widower/widow behavior that isn’t plainly reckless.
right? I mean even the traditional marriage vows (which given the possibility of divorce aren't really to be taken literally) include the phrase "until death do us part", implying that you are free to find somebody else once your partner has died.
I think remaining unmarried after a death is mostly a function of the amount of effort it takes to build that connection again. For some it may seem preferable to keep true to a memory.
Oh, absolutely. I've never been married, but after my SO died, it was over a decade before I started dating again because I absolutely hate that part of starting a relationship.
It might depend on the person. I want in-person friendships and 24 people sounds like more than I could reasonably give attention to. And I want non-platonic things
IMHO, it's not promiscuity that is morally questionable, its promiscuity without the informed consent of all parties involved. Feynman had affairs with married women (presumably without their husbands' knowledge or consent) and students, over whom he held power and whose consent (assuming they did consent) cannot have been free from coercion. (He also flat-out lied to women to get them to sleep with him, which is also not OK.)
I think it's important to distinguish these situations because I think there are a lot of people going through a lot of emotional pain because they believe that any sex outside of a long-term monogamous relationship is morally questionable, and it's not. The challenge is that insuring that all parties have given informed consent is hard, but the emotional toll of throwing in the towel on this can be pretty high, so I think it can be an effort worth making. Certainly it's worthwhile telling people that it's OK to try.
I mean this seriously. Why not both? I don’t see the problem with having multiple types of relationships with people, including sex. As long as everyone is on the same page (consensual, they know it’s casual, etc.)
I don't think strenholme is saying that those casual relationships are morally wrong, but that they're only facsimiles of the connection found in a deep and long relationship (especially one formed when young), and that pursuing facsimiles maybe brings you close enough to the original that you keep pursuing, but not close enough to ever approximate the original, and if what you miss is the original, then this is not a path to satisfaction.
Interesting point, but surely the reasoning that they are "only facsimiles of the connection found in a deep and long relationship" is a major argument for regarding them as morally wrong?
If you believe you have a moral duty to be the best person you can then passing up that opportunity in favour of the facsimiles is morally wrong.
> If you believe you have a moral duty to be the best person you can then passing up that opportunity in favour of the facsimiles is morally wrong
Maybe a better statement would be that casual connections only offer facsimiles of the depth of a deep and long relationship, because the sheer accumulation of time and experiences with another person cannot be replaced quickly. However, you can also say that a deep and long relationship only offers a facsimile of the breadth of many shorter relationships, as one person can only offer so many things. If you change your passionate pursuit every decade, finding a partner with the same one each time might make that pursuit more fruitful. It's not how I personally feel, but "best person" is subjective like that.
I don't think this follows unless you think there is something particularly special about sexual relations per se. I'm monogamous but I don't see why people should avoid casual sex.
That's the sense I get. Back in early 2011, there was still an issue where crappy DNS servers would sometimes respond to AAAA record requests with a "Server fail" error. Because of this, I had to tweak my recursive DNS server to treat a server fail to an AAAA request as if the AAAA record did not exist. This made IPv6 resolution more fragile, but it had to be done because of the state of the internet in early 2011.
I finally removed that "feature" here in 2022, when someone asked why I handled server fail responses to AAAA requests in this unusual manner.
There will come a day where I will have to give MaraDNS some form of DNS-over-HTTPS and/or DNS-over-TLS support if I want to keep it relevant. Right now, 1.1.1.1, 8.8.8.8, 9.9.9.9, and 4.2.2.1 all still support old school DNS-over-UDP, and Deadwood (part of MaraDNS) can do full recursion with just the root servers too.
But, over the medium term, we will probably hit a point where unencrypted DNS stops being mainstream, just as unencrypted HTTP by and large stopped being used in the 2010s.
This means that Deadwood (the caching/recursive DNS part of MaraDNS) will grow from being a tiny, efficient, 71680-byte server to being something a good deal more huge (TLS, HTTPS, etc. are really bloated compared to good old DNS-over-UDP).
While an interesting effect, this recursive nature of this game can not be seen unless one has a mouse scroll wheel. I think it would be good to allow zoom in/zoom out to be done a different way (such as page up/page down or +/-). Not everyone has a mouse scroll wheel.
While this may not work for tablets (?), the vast majority of laptops have a setting called two-finger scrolling that lets you use two fingers on a trackpad to give scroll wheel inputs.
That’s why I use uBlock origin: It hides all of those Amazon ads. Also hides Twitter ads, even YouTube video ads, pretty much everything except Facebook ads (Facebook plays cat and mouse games with ad blockers).
While I don’t mind YouTube ads -- I have disabled ad blockers on that ___domain because I’m an electronic musician myself so strongly feel it’s important to support artists and musicians -- these Amazon ads are in my book unethical, since they look like legitimate results with only a light grey “sponsored” in small text underneath them.
Don’t get me started with how Amazon pesters me to join Prime every time I order with them.
This is the internet as I know it since a few years. Going without it is unbearable after just one or two pages. The cookie notices alone are unbelievable. It's wild to think that some people live with the unfiltered Internet.
FBPurity does a pretty good job on blocking FB ads. Not perfect, still cat and mouse, but that’s the only site it works on, so the devs spend more effort on only that.
It’s good this came up here. I just spent the last week or so going through the MaraDNS code base and fixing all of the little Y2038 issues.
I know, time_t is 64-bit with pretty much any new Linux distro out there, so why are people seeing Y2038 issues? It’s because the Windows 32-bit POSIX compatibility layer handles Y2038 very poorly. Once Y2038 is reached, the POSIX time() call in a 32-bit app fails with a -1. It doesn’t use a rolling timestamp somewhere in 1901 the way 32-bit Linux applications with 32-bit time_t do. It fails hard, returning -1 for every call to time().
Now, it’s true that Microsoft does have proprietary calls for time and date which are Y2038 compliant, and, yes, native Windows32 apps should use those calls instead of the POSIX ones, but in the real world, it’s sometimes a lot easier to, say, just use stat() to get a file’s timestamp instead of having to use CreateFile() followed by GetFileTime().
This is why a lot of Windows apps are still seeing Y2038 issues.
In terms of Linux apps, the Y2038 stuff is mainly seen in old 32-bit binary only apps. Since that stuff is mainly games, where an inaccurate datestamp isn’t a serious issue, I think we will see emulation libraries which give old games a synthetic time and date so they aren’t outside of the Y2038 window. New apps will use a 64-bit time_t even if compiled as a 32-bit binary.
I thought Texas was supposed to be a “free range kids” state. The article even mentions this:
HB567, a larger child welfare reform bill, and clarifies that parents are allowed to let their kids engage in independent activities as long as they aren't putting them in serious, likely danger. [...] Unfortunately, HB567 amended only family law, not criminal law. This meant the cops were still free to punish Wallace.
The solution is to create a law like HB567, but that amends Texas’s criminal law so frivolous arrests like this one can not happen.
Another thing would be for more states to have well defined laws which give children a minimum age when they can be left unsupervised.
The problem with long term support for my Android phones has actually not been the fact that Android devices have incredibly short security update windows. That issue has been somewhat mitigated with the newer Google Pixel phones which have five years of security updates.
The biggest issue for long term cell phone support is, even if we get an OS with a 10-year security update timeline like Rocky Linux, will the phone itself be able to make calls on whatever cellular networks exist 10 years from now? I have a number of 3G phones I bought as recently as 2018 which became paperweights in 2021 when all of the cellular telcos in the United States stopped supporting 3G, forcing me to update to a 5G phone. Is 5G going to still work in 10 years? Or are the telcos going to continue to convert perfectly good phones in to landfill?
As someone who has a 15-year-old laptop which is still a perfectly good Linux server (its screen went out two years ago, but it was a perfectly good desktop computer until then), it’s annoying seeing phones I bought less than six years ago be useless on today’s cellular networks.
There were a number of cheap Android devices that had LTE, but never had VoLTE enabled. Instead of allowing them to work as data only devices, most carriers just blacklisted them from their networks.
Yup, got burned by this. I had a POCO X3 (4G LTE but no VoLTE) which I'd still be using today had AT&T not labeled it as a 3G phone. Even just attempting to use it with my SIM card now automatically deactivates my plan.
Now they have a phone whitelist restricted to (mostly) mainstream brands...
The US telcos went back to whitelisting phone models for volte, so unless you bought phone that were sold by them they'll prevent your from making calls (and accessing 5G network too).
There were some burner flip phones that didn't have 4G up until around 2015, LG making a few of them. This guy was buying used pieces of crap and complaining how they weren't going to support a waste of spectrum.
Incorrect. It was a brand new Samsung Galaxy A5 Duos which I bought in early 2018 for well over $300. Yes, it was 4G, but not voice over 4G. It stopping being able to make voice calls on AT&T’s network only four years later. I think T-Mobile still supports 2G, so it would work there, but I’m not sure.
Anyway I got a Pixel 5 and now use T-Mobile’s instead of AT&T’s network (via Ting, since I use little mobile data and that gives me a phone with a low-bandwidth data plan for $15 a month + tax), since T-Mobile is better about supporting legacy phones and protocols.
In terms of the “waste of spectrum” argument, I think it’s better for the earth to “waste” some spectrum than waste millions of perfectly good phones. One takes up landfill, the other doesn’t. But, to each their own.
> The problem with long term support for my Android phones has actually not been the fact that Android devices have incredibly short security update windows. That issue has been somewhat mitigated with the newer Google Pixel phones which have five years of security updates.
The problem with long term support for Android devices is absolutely short security update windows, i.e. short term support for Android devices. Pixel comprises a tiny fraction of Android devices sold in the US, and a miniscule fraction worldwide.
Must be a US problem. Where I'm from we still have 2G and no plans to turn it off, but we also don't have any plans to introduce 5G it seems (though tbh 5G isn't much of an improvement over 4G for most people's use cases).
At least the Netherlands is phasing out 2G and 3G, although you can still use them until 2025 depending on your provider. I suppose this is the same in at least several other European countries.
This, exactly. I have two ancient Nokia N900s that came out in 2009, runs a Debian variant natively and there's the Maemo Leste project that brings mainline Linux to the device (amazing!). However, is already useless as a phone in the USA. I also hear rumors European carriers will shutter their 3G networks soon; which is a shame. The hardware, while old and slow due to memory constraints, still works. I guess I should relegate it to being a small multimedia server in my apartment.
The planned obsolescence of today's mobile phones makes me sad.
Not only mobiles, but also desktops and laptops. For example, there are lots of unibody MacBooks which are perfectly functional but no longer get updates from Apple.
However, in case of mobiles, things are particularly awful because it is often not trivial to install and maintain an OS other than the one supplied by the manfucturer.
It's incredible how much electronic waste and security issues are generated by lazy manufacturers who do not mainline drivers into the Linux kernel.
Lineage OS can often do WiFi only on old Androids.
But unless I'm mistaken, if a device only has 3G, and you want to travel with it away from WiFi, you can't even get 3G data on the device, as they shut off the 3G networks in the USA. Best you're gonna find in some rural areas may be 2G or 2.5G.
> The problem with long term support for my Android phones has actually not been the fact that Android devices have incredibly short security update windows. That issue has been somewhat mitigated with the newer Google Pixel phones which have five years of security updates
5 years of updates is still a short time. We only have one planet...
> The biggest issue for long term cell phone support is, even if we get an OS with a 10-year security update timeline like Rocky Linux, will the phone itself be able to make calls on whatever cellular networks exist 10 years from now?
I don't think this is the biggest issue : operators usually maintain a certain type of carrier for at least 20-30 years (in France, we are only talking about shutting down 2G - which still raises a lot of issue because of the many IoT devices using GSM...)
The biggest issues are IMO
- lack of parts to repair old phones
- no possibility to manage bootloader keys / relock the bootloader (not even mentioning devices with locked bootloaders)
- "stable-api-nonsense" ideology and no BIOS/UEFI/ACPI for smartphone => no way to have "one firmware to rule them all"
Not sure if smartphones will last 10 years. I have 2 early Google phones die on me with strange boot loops (different series), my trusted hardware guy says the flash died. They are just not made for 10 years usage.
Your laptop may be good, but it will probably only support some ancient insecure slow WiFi profiles.
Distributions start to drop old hardware. And there are always new CPU and other chip security bugs discovered, how do you get fixes for that into your system?
802.11g will be 20 years old in a few months - that's up to 54 Mbps, which is plenty for most things short of streaming video. Similarly, 802.11n (up to 600 Mbps) is almost 15 years old.
> Not sure if smartphones will last 10 years. ... They are just not made for 10 years usage.
I'm fairly certain that some phone models out there are probably better in this regard, especially if you can swap out the battery, the components are of decent quality and they're built in a rugged way. Also, somehow the idea of repairing your phone has gone out of the window, since you can just buy a new one.
> Your laptop may be good, but it will probably only support some ancient insecure slow WiFi profiles.
For many, slow Wi-Fi is acceptable. Same with a dated and slow CPU/RAM, which many will still consider better than their devices becoming e-waste. If the OS wasn't so locked down, many would enjoy having a stand-in for a Raspberry Pi for all I care, since the small form factor of a phone would lend itself nicely to DIY hacking, especially because of included camera and networking. Even if the hardware is lacking, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't or couldn't support the software for longer amounts of time.
Your point about the hardware itself and what it supports becoming insecure is a good one, but there's no guarantee that the amount of time for something like that to happen would be much shorter than any improved OS EOL period. Of course, if it's some non-critical functionality that's insecure, it might as well be turned off in software, like older versions of TLS in web servers.
> Distributions start to drop old hardware. And there are always new CPU and other chip security bugs discovered, how do you get fixes for that into your system?
We could cross that bridge when we actually get to it, and try to figure out the things that are easier to do first and foremost: notably software support. If something like Ubuntu LTS has an EOL of 5 years and AlmaLinux has security updates for 10, I don't see why Android versions should be any different, unless governed by a profit oriented corporation.
Aside from that, it's surprising that 3G can just be tossed away like that on a national level, since the amounts of e-waste this would generate is kind of staggering, even more odd is the fact that in many places 2G is still in operation. I guess at least that is a bit of a silver lining, if the claims were to be true (citation is needed, but it sounds like a sane argument): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G#Decline_and_decommissions
> Technology that depends on 3G for usage will soon become inoperable in many places. For example, the European Union plans to ensure that member countries maintain 2G networks as a fallback[citation needed], so 3G devices that are backwards compatible with 2G frequencies can continue to be used.
The obvious comparison is Lua, which is generally the standard embedded language people use when a scripting language needs to be tiny. I compared its size; Zuo is 55% the size of Lua, so apples to apples, Zuo is only a little over half the size of Lua. On the other hand, Lua uses a Pascal like syntax which is a good deal more Bash like than Zuo.
Is Zua a Lua variant the size of Zuo? I like the idea.
Going back to the Bash comparison, Bash is huge but the subset ash is pretty small, somewhat smaller than Zuo. Busybox’s AWK is, as I recall, about half the size of Zuo. We can have a POSIX compliant scripting setup (ash + AWK) using around the same amount of space Zuo takes up.
The advantage of using Arial/Arimo on web pages is that it is the only font which is installed on pretty much every single desktop computer or mobile phone. If someone wants a font stack which acts the same everywhere without the overhead of downloading a font, Arial is the only choice (While Android phones do have Tinos, it doesn’t have the same metrics as Times New Roman; go figure). Windows users have had it since the 1990s, Apple has licensed all of Microsoft’s core web fonts, and Linux/Android users have the Arimo font with the same metrics — and it’s a single apt-get command to legally install the actual Microsoft Core Web fonts, including Arial, on desktop Linux.
Using Helvetica in a font stack with Linux has issues because many desktop distributions use the Ghostscript Helvetica equivalent font which has vertical alignment issues. Other fonts are often times substituted with different fonts which both change the look and metrics of a web page.
The reason why compatible metrics is important is that elements using lettering have the exact same size on a web page, so there aren’t issues with a font overflowing or otherwise looking wrong when it looks fine with Arial. Substituting Arial with Helvetica might break how things look in a web page which assumes Arial metrics.
Personally, I wish every computer out there (or at least every browser in widespread use) came with Noto Sans, Noto Serif, and Noto Sans Mono so that something like “font face: Noto Serif” would look and act the same way everywhere, but Arial is as close as we get to that.
Unless you need Arial's specific font characteristics in your stack, please just fall back to sans-serif. I hate these 'system font stacks' that don't fallback to my system because some schmuck thought it would be a good idea to put Ubuntu and Arial in these stacks instead of actually falling back to to the user agent or OS.
Android phones do not have Arial nor Arimo. I tested a simple page with "font-family: Arial, Arimo, serif" and got a serif font.
Second, you are overstating the importance of metric compatibility on the Web. Web pages aren’t built with pixel-perfect character placement (unlike PDFs or some GUI frameworks) - text is flowed by the browser, and the web developer cannot specify nor depend on the precise appearance of it, as the appearance of text may differ depending on the browser engine, underlying OS, system scaling, user zoom, accessibility settings etc.
"Hello" in 10px Arial takes up 29x10 px on a Windows 11 PC (in Paint), but it might take up a little more or little less 32 px on Linux, or macOS, a different Windows program, or a 150% scale display, due to antialiasing/hinting/rendering technique differences. On a webpage, you wouldn’t make a button containing the word "Hello" precisely 29x10 px — the button would have more breathing space anyway, or it might just have a margin/padding instead of width/height set, and the layout will work even with tiny rendering differences.
Also, while a handful of very-badly-designed pages may break if you replace Arial with Helvetica for aesthetic reasons, the bigger crime they simultaneously commit is that they won’t work if you replace Arial with OpenDyslexic for accessibility reasons.
Android phones do not have Arial nor Arimo. I tested a simple page with "font-family: Arial, Arimo, serif" and got a serif font.
That’s may be true for Firefox on Android, which has, as per caniuse.com, a 0.28% global usage share. Chrome for Android, which has a 40.28% usage share (well over 100 times the users as Firefox/Android) shows things without serif.
There’s also a number of uniwidth typefaces which do not get wider in their bold form, for GUI elements which need to stay the same size (a use case which we should not completely dismiss as bad design), but those need to be downloaded as .woff/.woff2 fonts.
I have reproduced your results. It looks like Android made the move to using Arimo for Arial to using Roboto fairly recently; the Arial trick worked with my older 2017/2018 Android smart phone. Unfortunate too; there is no longer any universal font stack which preserves metrics. The only option now to preserve metrics is to have users download a fairly large .woff/.woff2 font.
Large is relative; the 116,472 bytes my font stack needs has five fonts: Roman, bold, italic, sans serif bold, and sans serif bold small caps. Mind you, this only supports English and Spanish, but it does have smart quotes, an em dash, and other typographic characters: “”‘’— etc.
Then again, 116,472 bytes is a drop in the bucket in an era when people by and large consume video content online.
>Arial is designed with the same metrics as Helvetica
Mostly true, as per https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Metric-compatible_fonts but Arimo is designed to have the exact same metrics as Arial, which is important for situations where one is testing a web page/app and can only avoid testing a different font if it’s guaranteed to act in the very same manner. I don’t think Apple guarantees that their Helvetica is compatible with Arial to that degree. Using Helvetica in a font stack on a web page[1] isn’t practical unless one discards that 1-2% of Linux desktop users out there, since they will often get Nimbus Sans which has a different vertical alignment.
In terms of the power users with custom CSS which replaces all instances of Arial with Apple’s Helvetica, they are probably clued enough to understand it might screw up the alignment of an element tied to a font’s exact metrics on a web page. I agree it’s unlikely, but I also remember when clients insisted on “pixel perfect” HTML/CSS renderings of their Photoshop-generated layout template.
[1] If they have a Helvetica implementation as a .woff/.woff2 web font, this doesn’t apply. I’m assuming that this is a web page which doesn’t have any downloaded fonts.
I think Arial was designed in the 1980's to match Linotype Helvetica (which Apple licensed).
Pixel perfect is tough, but a quick lookaround suggests that the two fonts should match glyph widths at least. There are other metrics to consider though, for sure!
As per the discussion, it looks like Android has moved from using Arimo for “Arial” to using Roboto for “Arial”, which has different metrics. Point being, here in 2022, if one wants a font to preserve metrics across platforms, one needs to provide the fonts as relatively large .woff/.woff2 files. There is no longer a universal font stack out there.
I can see why Feynman became sexually promiscuous afterwards, undoubtedly to numb the pain of losing his wife; seduction allowed him to have a form of that connection, albeit without the depth and love of what he had with his wife. While that path looked appealing to me, I do not regret avoiding that temptation.