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Re: No more free bugs (and WOOT)

From: Charles Miller <cmiller () securityevaluators com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 13:43:22 -0500
Hi Julien,

I think you misunderstand.  I'm all for responsible disclosure.  I  
just think those doing the disclosure should be rewarded for their  
efforts.  (This is how NMFB is fundamentally different from  
antisecurity.is I believe)

As for benefitting the general public, if researchers were actually  
rewarded for their work, more of them would look for (and report)  
vulnerabilities and the public would actually be better off.  Ask  
yourself the question, would more IE bugs be found if the reward was a  
researchers name in an advisory or a bug lump of cash.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean about Pwn2Own, but if you are  
referring to the guy who had the already disclosed Safari bug(s), I  
beat him, not because his bug was already disclosed - and hence fell  
outside the rules, but rather because my name was randomly selected  
first :p

Charlie

On Apr 8, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Julien TINNES wrote:


On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 11:17:29AM -0500, Charles Miller wrote:

Hi everybody.

You may have heard some about the No More Free Bugs campaign 
(http://blog.trailofbits.com/2009/03/22/no-more-free-bugs/
)  Basically, it is the chance for researchers to unite to get paid
for the hard work we do.  As long as folks continue to give bugs to
companies for free, the companies will never appreciate (or reward)
the effort.  So I encourage you all to stop the insanity and stop
giving away your hard work.  If you believe in the No More Free Bugs
campaign, please include our logo (http://nomorefreebugs.org/ 
logo.jpg)
on all of your presentations at security conferences.  I think it
would be really great if vendors sat through an entire conference and
every talk had this logo on it.  I'll definitely have it on my
BlackHat Europe slide deck next week.


Hi,

I don't understand the point of the campaign. Why are you trying to
convince people not to report bugs responsibly directly to vendors?
What harm would it do ?
I can understand the reasons for a researcher to sell bugs to ZDI or
iDefense, I cannot understand how it could benefit the general public
if all security researchers would do so.
Are you trying to make vulnerability selling a bigger market so that
prices go higher?

Please, sit on vulnerabilities for months if you think this is what  
good
security researchers do [1], sell your bugs if you want (and there is
certainly a lot of appeal to do so), but don't try to convince  
everyone
else this is the way things should work!

Or next year your opponent's efforts may not fall outside the pwn2own
criteria and you may not win ;)

Julien

[1] http://www.securityfocus.com/news/11549


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