I wonder why consumers put up with all the add-on crap that comes with a Windows PC. I guess maybe they just don't know any other real choices exist?
It's been many years since I setup a commercial Windows-based machine (and the non-commercial installs I've done have mostly been for VMs for testing purposes). But, I remember those machines from Dell having a ton of random extraneous crap already loaded. Crap icons all over the desktop. Crap-ware that auto-launched and made the system tray area extend 1/4 of the way across the taskbar, and so on. Completely ridiculous.
I bought a new iMac for my wife a couple of weeks ago. Took it out of the box, turned it on, and it was (as usual) a smooth and sane experience.
Don't get me wrong, it's not that I an totally anti-Microsoft, or completely Apple fan-boy. I just choose to use and buy the product that offers the best experience for my money, and Microsoft hasn't been part of that equation for a very long time now.
I knew somebody would mention Apple. Sadly, Apple is not that much better - after all, you are almost forced to register with Apple (iTunes, MobileMe, etc) to reap the full benefits. In fact with my Mac I just gave in and registered, which I always managed to avoid with other PCs.
It's just that they limit themselves to Apple products, and Apple fans cherish that rather than being annoyed by it.
Try installing iTunes on Windows, and you get lots of crap along with it, too (Quicktime, some Apple Software updater background thread, iPod connector background process even if you don't have an iPod, Bayonet-Networking or what it is called, and so on). Really, they are NOT better here.
Besides, I've had very good experiences with Dell. At least they still provide the install disk for Windows. Maybe it depends on whether you buy from the consumer or the business lines, though. If there really is any pollution, the first step should be reinstalling the OS from scratch, without all the crapware (but as I said, I didn't have to do that with my Dell purchases so far).
MobileMe? Really? I've never registered for that, and I don't think I'm benefit deficient.
iTunes, only if you have an iPod, and I think most people recognize what they are opting in to if you go down that road. (Is the Zune any better in that regard?).
I've bought Dell and HP home and corporate desktop machines (again, though not in the last few years). Both were burdened with a lot of pre-installed junk. If I have to reinstall the OS on a new PC, I think that is sort of a non-win.
I suppose it is a matter of perspective, but the Apple machines I've purchased have not come burdened with a ton of 3rd party crap, and have not made removal of what IS installed (iWork as an example) overly difficult if you choose to do so.
I haven't registered with MobileMe either, it was just an example that Apple DOES try to push things on you.
And you mention the difference: one is 3rd party stuff, Apple pushes Apple. It still pushes.
Again it is the useless comparison between "Apple" and "PCs". There are bad PC vendors and, OK, less bad PC vendors. Shop smart, and you don't have to put up with preinstalled crapware. Not even with Dell.
"Overly difficult" is entirely in the eye of the beholder...
So much of it is in the presentation. Sure, there are a couple of places where Apple tries to upsell you, but the process of ignoring those offers is not overly difficult or confusing. The impression they give is, to me, one in which they are more concerned about the overall user experience.
Microsoft and Dell/HP/et al seem to have almost no concern for how the customer perceives their initial experiences with the product. Getting an MS/Dell PC, you also automatically get 8 other vendors along for the ride. The specific benefit, and long or short term value, of any of those vendors is often not made very clear. Some of the products pop right up in your face, while others sit in the background and/or practically hide from any uninstallation attempts.
Does "Shop Smart" mean "Reinstall the OS from Scratch?"
Apple pushes Apple. It still pushes
Difference between Apple and Dell: Apple prompts you fewer times, doesn't try to make you feel insecure about opting out, and looks respectable throughout the whole experience. Last time I set up a PC, it was like passing an aisle of carnival hawkers.
With my recent purchases I did not have to reinstall from scratch. I suppose Dell still tries to sell you Norton or something like that in their PC configurator, but if you don't chose it, it should not be on the PC. They are capable of learning...
The worst experience I had was with an expensive Sony Vaio Notebook (which did not have an OS installation CD either). Luckily I could send it back. But if you buy Sony, you must not complain, after the rootkit debacle.
_Not_ registering for MobileMe is a benefit unless you are blowing cash on iPhone 3G data plans and really get value from iPhone and Mac data and email sync. For everyone else, its a net loss. me.com's web site is painfully slow (sorry SproutCore, somethings's just not right with this app). I've been working for over a year to migrate away from my mac.com email address so I won't have to renew in a few months.
I've only seen one place in iTunes where I've been asked to register, and that has a very obvious "Never Register" button. I don't even remember seeing any sort of MobileMe registration, much less use it. I'd say it's signicantly better than the experiences I've had with other PC vendors, and I think others would agree. One (possibly 2) places where Apple asks for registration as opposed to how many in a typical PC? 4? 6?
I'm not going to argue about installing iTunes on Windows, but it's not relevant to comparing the out-of-the-box experiences, is it?
Perhaps that is the difference: register with Apple, get more benefits; register with Norton, have your computer lock up weekly while it does a full disk scan.
They are just better at making their users pay for stuff. And it is not only benefits. I don't remember exactly what it was anymore, but my feeling really was that I had to give in and register my Mac. Usually I never do that.
However, by no means do I want to defend Norton. They are not even worth discussing, they should just be purged from the earth.
Are there any PC brands out there that (default to) selling clean systems? In the last years I only had one shocking encouter with a HP laptop (Compaq brand) and don't really know what the others are doing. I know that my good old ThinkPad came (five years ago) in a pretty clean state (but I found all the custom stuff - special buttons HUD, trackpad confuguration and so on - to be not very polished.)
It's really a shame. The hardware is not so bad. Build quality is ok (ThinkPads: great!). The price is great. I would feel only a bit terrible if I were forced to switch my MBP with a HP laptop based on hardware alone. It's the software. Yeah, you can solve all this. But that's something annoying I want to avoid. And that is worth quite a bit of money.
I've had good experiences with Dell, but it might depend on the category you buy from. I've only bought from business selection so far. Also you might have to uncheck some things in the order dialog.
Sounds like you setup a system using the disk that came with it. Big mistake. Try using an actual Windows disc from Microsoft, and you won't have any of that crap. I think it's pretty obvious that Microsoft gets a lot of flack for evils perpetuated by the PC manufacturers.
The Windows OS is often greatly discounted when purchased with the hardware, pre-installed.
How do you "use an actual Windows disc from Microsoft" to reinstall without incurring additional license fees and hassles (IME, the OEM license keys you get with a Dell box won't let you register a generic Windows install)?
All the Dells I recently had came with proper OS installation disks that did not come with other crap. Possibly you would have to check "give me the CD" when ordering the PC, though.
I also so far had no problem installing said OS on other PCs, but mileages may vary (so many different versions of Windows floating around).
I was talking to a comedy writer friend of mine and he reckons the way that the world has been makes both humour and establishing a relationship really, really easy. The trick is just to be honest. Honesty is now so refreshing (in a world of "spin") it becomes both hilarious and endearing.
Why doesn't someone just make: "A PC that doesn't suck"? Give me a beautiful PC in a small form factor with the parts I've requested and with a nice big monitor. Also give me support that feels personal. Install Windows clean with the OEM version. That's it.
As far as apps? Partner with base shield or just make an online app store where people can download what they want.
PCs are a commodity item now. Shoes are a commodity item. Do to the PC Market what Zappos did to shoes. Good service and a clean experience.
The problem with that from a support point of view is that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with a computer than a pair of shoes. Also it costs a lot more to do something like send the customer a new product under suspicious circumstances just to keep them happy and loyal. While PCs can be considered commodity at this point, the wholesale cost is still more than the wholesale cost of a pair of shoes.
Update: Not to mention that I doubt that Zappos has to custom-build shoes (and the labor costs associated with that), though I've never done business with Zappos so I can't say that definitively.
You don't have to translate tit for tat what Zappos does. Both businesses are different at a more granular level, but great service is a universal language. I know the guy at the local PC store on a first name basis. Why can't I have that same relationship with my PC vendor and not deal with yet another call center that is overseas?
Why do I have to deal with 100 fucking SKUs at DELL that all have some random numbers? You know how Steve Jobs decided the Mac product lineup? A 2x2 grid: columns for desktop+laptop and rows for consumer+pro. Don't blame Microsoft so much. Blame the OEMs.
I'm not blaming Microsoft for anything. In general computers have more points of failure, which means more support calls.
While having a simpler line-up prevents you from overloading the customers with too much choice, you also end up in the boat where people will go elsewhere if one of your pre-built machines isn't exactly what they want. Apple has people griping about this stuff all the time, but people that want the 'Mac Experience' can't really go to Dell to get it. As far as a generic PC goes, they can just hop over to Dell to get it. Though I guess you could get around this by offering customization options that Apple doesn't have, but then you run into additional labor costs (which a larger competitor like Dell might be able to cut significantly).
I recently bought a Sony Vaio and while there were a number of pre-installed offers (from Sony itself or for Norton software), overall I was surprised that it wasn't worse. If I recall correctly it only came with:
30 day nagware trial of Norton Antivirus
30 day trial of MS Office
It might be a sad statement that I expected more crap. On the other hand, I was also very pleasantly surprised that it came with Google Chrome pre-installed.
So does Google Chrome include the Google Spybar? Because there would be your answer... In any case it seems likely that Google paid for Chrome on Vaio.
One way I have found to get around this is to buy from "small business" sections rather than "home" sections. You're far less likely to have to deal with any random 3rd party crap installed when you order from Dell's Small Business area.
It's been many years since I setup a commercial Windows-based machine (and the non-commercial installs I've done have mostly been for VMs for testing purposes). But, I remember those machines from Dell having a ton of random extraneous crap already loaded. Crap icons all over the desktop. Crap-ware that auto-launched and made the system tray area extend 1/4 of the way across the taskbar, and so on. Completely ridiculous.
I bought a new iMac for my wife a couple of weeks ago. Took it out of the box, turned it on, and it was (as usual) a smooth and sane experience.
Don't get me wrong, it's not that I an totally anti-Microsoft, or completely Apple fan-boy. I just choose to use and buy the product that offers the best experience for my money, and Microsoft hasn't been part of that equation for a very long time now.