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So I've been at this 9 years and I'm not making six figures. Fuck. I don't even understand where I went wrong. Part of me can't believe the article at all.

His comment about cost of living was kind of an outright dismissal, very odd? I don't think Google will let me work from Milwaukee.

Where is the information on travel, quality of life (owning a house?), etc?




I think it's important to remember that HN seems to focus on the experience of the 95th percentile developer (which is not to say that you are not one of those). The numbers in this blog post are well beyond the reach of even a 75th percentile developer. The GAFAs and YC startups of the world aren't even going to interview a 75th percentile developer let alone hire and compensate him or her at those levels.

If you look at Dan Luu's resume and writing, it's reasonable to assume that he's well beyond the 95th percentile himself, so those numbers are very likely attainable for him.


I don't disagree (or claim to be 95th percentile). The question I have in regards to your comment would be - so then isn't it an article about how he is getting ripped off?

What I mean to say is, my thought is that a developer in the 95th percentile would make their own product/business.

I've never thought of myself as an 'average' developer; but then again most people say that about their driving. It does make me wonder what a bad developer is though.


I think the point of the article is just the three points Dan explicitly makes -- he's questioning the common wisdom that startups (for a top developer) offer better compensation, more interesting work, and better work experience than larger corporations. I suspect that if he thought he were being ripped off, he would easily move to either a large corporation or a startup where he was getting a better deal.

As for 95th percentile developers making their own products or businesses, that's a completely independent skill with little correlation to software development ability. Beyond writing the software, you've got to market and sell the product, set up distribution channels, support the product, etc. I'd consider myself a respectable developer, but I have no delusions that my development skills translate to any of the other skills required to build a business. I'm generally content to execute in a software development role for someone who has the broader vision and skills to build a business around that product.

And lastly, I wouldn't base an assessment of your skill as a developer on your compensation. In current and previous roles, I've seen a number of salary lists, and there was zero correlation between pay and talent. Some of the most highly-paid developers were near worthless and some of the most solid developers were paid 25-40% less. While it's sad that being a good software developer is not enough to be paid at the top of the scale, we generally have it pretty good in that the decent ones of us are likely to have salaries well above the national average.


California (and certain parts even more so) is an alternate reality where 3 weeks in a coder bootcamp learning to copy-paste from stack overflow entitles you to a job as a 6-figure javascript ninja. And you'll still be living in poverty. It might as well be a different country with a 10-1 exchange rate.


The median home value in Palo Alto is $2.5M per Zillow; in neighboring Menlo Park with comparable schools it's $2M. If you cross I-280 for larger lot sizes (and generally, though not always, more house square footage) you'll see the median home value in Portola Valley is $3.8M. If you don't like those figures, you can look at Trulia's, which says the median sales price for Palo Alto is $2.5M and the mean listing price is $3M.

Note these are generally not luxurious properties at those prices. Many are small postwar ranchers or Eichlers (beautiful but a pain to update) that have not been renovated in decades. Some houses have negative value because they're teardowns; you'd buy the property for the land.

After taking into account housing costs and California's aggressively progressive tax regime, you may find that $250K salary does not go as far as you like. You may make 2x-3x as much--but your cost for comparable housing may be 10x-15x as high and your tax burden will be more oppressive as well.


I don't think Google will let me work from Milwaukee.

Depending on your skills, maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. But you might be surprised to learn that the author worked for Google an hour-and-a-half away in Madison? https://github.com/danluu/tex-resume/blob/master/resume.pdf


I am surprised, and it my own mistake not to look into. Thanks for pointing me to his resume.


That's certainly an impressive resume...


I wouldn't claim to know anything specific about your situation, but I'll say that I'm in the same boat (albeit by intention). In order to break six figures, you'll probably need to work for a tech company (Amazon, Microsoft, etc) and live in the appropriate metropolitan area. If you're not a top productive developer, you'll probably be expected to put in 50+ hours a week. These things all incur a cost to you, the employee, that is partially compensated by the increased salary and benefits.

For example, I currently make about $90k. I interviewed at Microsoft in Redmond and was offered $110k base. Let's call it $130k with bonus. I declined the offer. Why?

I interviewed for a senior position and was told "we don't think you're qualified for a senior position, would you like a junior position"? This is not a problem, except that it communicates to me that expectations will be high for improvement. Additionally, during the interviews, I inquired, "Does the team generally work 40-hours a week?" And they said with a disdainful tone, "Well, we do have one person that works 40-hours a week." That tells me that I'll have to work my butt off for 50+ hours a week. Additionally, moving from the smaller town I live in to Redmond/Bellevue area will incur a noticeable increase in cost of living (specifically rent/mortgage).

So, I go from a pro-rata rate of ~$43/hour to ~$50/hour (a 16% raise, nice but not amazing) but then I have to pay for it with substantially higher cost of living and substantially more stressful workload. As an aside, this was when stack ranking was still a thing, and my questioning of the team during the interview indicated that it was a internally competitive team, which as a personal thing is disqualifying for me.

So if you want a six figure developer position, create a GitHub profile and build some ad-hoc demonstration apps using some interesting modern tools. But just be aware that, if you're not a "top developer" or "rock star", then six figures often comes with a considerable cost.


I wouldn't worry too much about that. Cost of living is adjusted and it seems like the numbers in this calculation are based on the Bay Area which has one of the highest costs of living in the U.S. When you factor in taxes, cost of living, transportation and everything else, you may be just as good or even better off than someone in SF making $150k.


Out of curiosity, how many companies have you worked at during that time period? My experience over the past 4 years as a developer and 7 years in the labor force has been that my biggest raises have always come either by switching jobs or by bringing an offer to my boss.


Three.


They have an office in Wisconsin!


Pittsburgh




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