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The Swedish Number – Talk with a Random Swede (theswedishnumber.com)
273 points by iriche on April 11, 2016 | hide | past | favorite | 204 comments



Carl from Sweden who actually received calls, recollects his experience here - https://medium.com/@carlheath/stories-from-the-swedish-numbe...


Like nearly all other Swedes, you can google 'carl heath' and find a page with his phone number, home address, birthday, and a button 'send him flowers': http://personer.eniro.se/resultat/Carl+Heath


haha yes! I used interflora


Oops, just found out he's a colleague :)


And we can also use google to find stories on ourselves too, in Sweden. Havent seen any flowers yet, though. ;)


Anyone try this yet? I've always wondered what Swedes think about IKEA in America...


As a Swede currently living in California who also has visited IKEA in several different countries I can report that the general experience of visiting IKEA is pretty much as stressful and disorienting here as in Sweden. There are some local variations in the product portfolio both due to different standards like in bed sizes and kitchen and cultural differences. You cannot find a cheese slicer in my nearest IKEA and they have icing on their cinnamon buns (almost blasphemy).

To be honest, IKEA is a Swedish company by brand only. The products are sourced from wherever it is cheapest to manufacture right now and the ownership structure is so complex, multinational and tax-avoidance schemy that probably only the head honcho Ingvar Kamprad (IK in IKEA) who until recently resided in Switzerland, knows where the profit ends up.

(edit: got Ingvar Kamprads name wrong first time around)


> experience of visiting IKEA is pretty much as stressful and disorienting here as in Sweden

Weird- I visited an IKEA with four friends and it felt much like a theme park. There was a cafeteria and everything.

Granted, our 5th friend--whiskey--was there too.


If you visited there with 4 friends, wouldn't you be the 5th friend?


It was four friends and then this guy. The other four hate him.


He was +1 of their 5th friend.


Is friendship reflexive?


Yes, he's Whiskey.


Whiskey is usually the fifth.


Ingvar Kamprad now moved home to Sweden, probably to spend his last year. All other still apply.

http://www.svd.se/ingvar-kamprad-flyttar-hem


Thanks. I have edited my post :)


It seems most of the profit ends up in the charitable foundation which is now paying a bit out to the needy after some prodding http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/8772...


"Charitable" foundation. Aka IKEA R&D department and funds bunker.


Just some anecdote on Kamprad: Switzerland was also the first country for IKEA to expand into and we now have some of the largest stores. I suspect it had to do with Kamprad's early interest in the country, and possibly because it was a good test market for them. Most Swiss have heard some of stories about him - e.g. him driving an old Volvo, using and washing up plastic dishes and also that he often visited the first Ikea in Switzerland (Spreitenbach) in order to see how things go and optimise the strategy.

For me it has always been impressive how streamlined an Ikea is towards maximising revenue. I'm one of these people who tends to analyse my surroundings constantly for possible optimizations - yet in Ikea I couldn't come up with even one improvement that would make it better for the company. This alone is actually rather refreshing for me, finally a place where I can switch off my brain and just indulge in a bit of consumption!


The Swedes are using cheese slicers too? I always thought the Dutch were the only people in the world to use cheese slicers.


Yes, but it was invented by a Norwegian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_Bj%C3%B8rklund


And here I was thinking this was a Brazillian invention (they are wildly popular in Brazil, everywhere you go in Brazil, even the middle of nowhere, like Amazon Rainforest, you will find someone that owns one).


That is interesting. I thought that it was mostly and European thing. What kinds of cheese is common in Brazil?


the most popular cheese, far ahead of anything else, is mozarella... it is not high quality as actual italian ones though (it is way less "fibrous").

then we have Prato (it means "Plate" as in dinner plate... or dinner dish...), that has the exact same recipe as Danbo, but is made with brazillian milk, and seemly tastes very differently (I dunno, since I never ate Danbo).

then we have a purely local invention called Minas, named after the state of Minas Gerais, despite being a São Paulo invention... (go figure...), that one is hard to describe, since it refers to 4 different cheeses (or the same cheese with 4 slightly variations in the process to make them, but with end results drastically different).

Then other italian cheeses are popular here, maybe because the large italian community here, and how much Brazillians also love pizza, so here almost every supermarket offers Provolone, Parmesan and Gorgonzola.

In urban areas you can find frequently "Steppe" cheese, it is a russian cheese it seems, it is expensive (double the price of "Prato") but not much as local clones of french/swiss cheese (Steppe is half of the price of local clones of Emmental, Gruyere, etc...)

cheddar cheese is sold a bit, but most people consider it low quality crap, the biggest seller of cheddar cheese don't even bother in selling actual cheddar, and instead sell a clone that tastes mostly the same, for very little... people still prefer to buy more expensive mozarella instead.


Oh no, they don't use it on cheese...


Cool, didn't know that and I use his invention literally every day!


Finn here. How else are you supposed to slice cheese?


Knife i guess or buy factory sliced. Most cheeses in america is a bit to soft to slice with a cheese slicer anyway.


American cheese? Does that relate to real cheese as Pizza Hawaii compares to an actual Italian pizza?


There's cheese which is made in America which for most intents and purposes is cheese like everywhere else, and then there's "American cheese" which comes in slices or blocks and is "cheese product" and only vaguely resembles the real thing despite being delicious in certain guilty-pleasure situations.


Don't look for American cheese, look for Wisconsin or Vermont cheese. Maybe California in a pinch. Those will be good.


That makes no sense. The geographic source of the cheese is trivila compared to the way it is made. You can get cheap American process ccheese food or you can get expensive classic varieties of cheese from anywhere.


In my experience, the more popular american cheeses are quite mild and have a low melting temperature to get a good melt and stretch on warm food. I don't find them particularly interesting to just slice and put on a piece of bread. It is often easy enough to find good but expensive imported cheeses.


It's flimsy processed orange milk-based goop in thin sheets. Great on burgers and literally nothing else.


Actually, it ruins the burger...


Actually, no u


Well, for that there’s a special danish type of cheese slicer that works better with soft cheese.



That’s exactly what I meant! We (my family being German) found it on one of our shopping trips at Bilka Kolding (we sometimes drive up there), and just bought one.

Sooo awesome.


My foodie friends call that a `guitar'.


Or Swedish cheese is made hard enough to be used with an osthyvel.



In Switzerland we do cheese shavings like described in the following article (although only for a specific type of cheese, the 'tete de moine' (monk's head). http://itotd.com/articles/217/the-girolle/

For any other hard cheese it's a bit blasphemic.


Cheese wire maybe?


Huh. I've had a cheese slicer at home forever (Scottish-American).

It mostly gets used at dinner parties, when we buy nicer cheeses; inexpensive cheese is almost all pre-sliced in the US. Same holds true for my parents.


Most cheese sold in Britain is not sliced, but most people use an ordinary knife for slicing it.

I'd guess grated cheese outsells sliced cheese.


And for the record: The cheese slicers sold at IKEA are horrible, slicing way too thick slices.


I have two slicers, a really good one and a bad one both from IKEA. Consistent quality is not really their thing.


Can you not bend them until the angle produces thinner slices?


I've always had one in England but most people who encounter it have no idea what it's for, so they're not exactly common place.


Dude, the Germans love cheese slicers. (Granted, the cheese we slice is mostly Dutch. But still :)


Danes do too.


> You cannot find a cheese slicer in my nearest IKEA

Hmm, they sell them at the one closest to me (in Japan) [Yes I'm a Swede)


Is the aesthetic and design Swedish, or is that mostly a myth as well?


Their main design office is in Sweden and most designers are Swedish. Sometimes they collaborate with 'star' designers and they have been accused of plagiarism quite a few times.


The food seems the most Swedish.


I dated a Swedish woman, and she would go to Ikea whenever she felt homesick. She would sometimes run into other Swedes there.


I did this when I first moved abroad. First weekend out of Sweden I went to the local IKEA and got stuff.


In her Volvo?


Probably a Saab.


Definitely a Koenigsegg.


IKEA is owned by former Nazi and famous tax evader Ingvar Kamprad. IKEA is actually a Dutch non-profit(!) foundation. It's part of a very intricate scheme to minimize the tax burden of the owners. IMHO, Kamprad has been exploiting Sweden's good will abroad (and maybe reputation for quality?) but he doesn't give a whole lot back. They do sell good and cheap furniture though. :)


He wasn't exactly the only teenager that were swept away by the rather popular national socialistic party at the time before the war. Germany was an important cultural influence and they sort of bootstrapped the economy, etc. There are publicly available lists for anyone that is interested. The researcher Tobias Hübinette seems to be focusing on issues related to Sweden, "whiteness" and race. http://www.tobiashubinette.se/

Regarding the trusts... I think that at the time (1970) and heavily socialist influenced era, it was more or less the only option to secure a privately owned and growing company from the tax man. The taxes were absurd at the time and small privately owned companies were very vulnerably to death-by-tax, especially if the owner died unexpectedly.

When the trusts are set up and the ownership is moved, there is not that much you can do about that actually, and the trusts can control to some degree how much tax the corporations pay as the trusts can charge royalties and set rates to minimize the earnings in the corporations that are "IKEA". Kamprad is probably a board member of all the important trusts, but the trusts are limited by their charter though, so there are limits to the control. It's true that they can't just give money away, at least without a courts ruling.

But still. IKEA have done a lot for the Swedish economy, there is still plenty of production in Sweden (as in Poland, or any cheap place in the world), and a lot of designers and engineers are employed in Sweden.


The main takeaway here being that you can take advantage of the political climate for a century to win the game of life.


From this Swede's point of view, IKEA is primarily a global distributor of fresh Lingonberry jam. (I hear they also sell furniture.)

(Seriously, I don't get why lingonberries don't get a wider, eh, distribution. It's brilliant in so many things. My favorite is just tossing lingonberry jam into cream-based sauces.)


Ok, I'm not sure why I was downvoted for a simple question, but thanks HN! Way to encourage open discussion.


I upvoted you on both your comments because of the unfairness of downvotes without explanation. I can find nothing wrong with your comment.


Ditto. I hate when that happens, so upvoted as well


Hopping aboard the Upvote train and dishing out upvotes for you all :D


Welcome to Hacker News! You'll receive stray downvotes sometimes, but usually it gets undone pretty quickly.


Swedes, as citiens of a kinda small and inherently insignificant county kinda fetishise any foreign recognition. I think that's why we like IKEA and H&M.

There's an old but good show that discusses the subject of our self-image pretty accurately (dunno if there are any english subtitles available) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4-V8_r0y-o


And yet you're the home of Roxette, Abba, Ace of Base, and more than a few others in my collection...


And Max Martin, the Swedish songwriter behind most of the international superstars of the last decade or two. Liked a song by Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, Kelly Clarkson, Pink or Britney Spears? Good chance it was actually a Max Martin song: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Martin


After moving to Hawaii, I've discovered that IKEA products are largely not appropriate for tropical climates -- all the fiberboard stuff has gotten severe mold infestations.

In CA, I loved going to IKEA to stock up on some swedish foods they have. I was very sad when they stopped carrying the foam cars, now it's mostly IKEA-branded stuff...


Those wonderful things are called Bilar:

http://www.cloetta.se/ahlgrensbilar

"... sold since 1953 and marketed as "the world's most sold car" (which is possibly technically correct, by number of cars)."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GWDqdnE2yk

"Det finns bara ett sätt att stoppa den - i munnen!"


The offerings in IKEA are a bit larger in Sweden, other things that can be bought* here: Apartments[0]

[0]: http://www.boklok.se/

* Company owned by Ikea and buyers are selected with a lottery system held at an Ikea ___location


They probably just think it is fair that the joy of furniture assembly is shared with Americans. :)


Ask a random Swede.


IKEA is much the same the world over.

Sadly, the Swedish food they sell has deteriorated last few years. I can no longer recommend people to buy it.


the horse-meat balls arent what they used to be?


Hej Hej! I spent 4 months (in the dead of winter) consulting in Stockholm Sweden and it has a special place in my heart. I meet some great people... Some from just posting in reddit /stockholm.

Highly recommend visiting, if you can, go during June (end) for midsummer. I was there Dec - March, it was damn cold.


Ahh the new SaaS(Swede as a Service).


This made me laugh so hard I thought an upvote was not enough. We're building a SaaS thing at work and I'll open with this at the daily stand-up tomorrow.


SaaB (Swedish as a Business)


I am from Norway, and decided to call. Ended up talking 30 mins with an extremely nice lady in the south of sweden. 10/10 would recommend - Swedes are awesome


Can't wait to see what /b/ will do with that.


There were actually postings on 4chan's /pol/ about this. Mostly anons asking Swedes what they thought of Muslim refugees raping women in their country (in the rudest way possible) and Swedes politely denying that claim.

Would have been interesting if the anons weren't so hostile; instead it was just aggravating as 4chan always is.


From what I've heard from actual Swedes, any non-leftist opinion (or one that isn't leftist enough) will quickly result in the media turning on you and labeling you as a racist, Islamophobe, etc. It'd make you a social pariah and probably end your career. It's apparently not even kosher to suggest decreasing the number of immigrants coming in each year.

I wonder what their responses to that question would be if they weren't afraid of being identified (by their voice, information they provided on the call, etc.).


Do you read Swedish media? I don't say there haven't been a blind spot regarding immigration, but lately the government ministers have acknowledged the current refugee crisis is a problem.

Anyway, portraying the whole immigration issue only in terms of a rightist / leftist divide isn't very truthful. Moderaterna are not exactly a leftist party.


I'm not Swedish but I'm living in Sweden. This past weekend, my girlfriend, who is Swedish, wanted to participate in this phone number thing. I told her it was a terrible idea and I had to show her /b/ to convince her.


Shame. other people seem to have had lovely connections with the service, like Karl mentioned in another comment: https://medium.com/@carlheath/stories-from-the-swedish-numbe...


/b/ is actually educational when it comes to showing people the really bad face of the internet.


Interesting but not surprising website. I visited Stockholm for the first time recently and I was impressed with the usage of tech to increase everyday efficiencies. Things like: app for the rail station tickets/yellow cabs/buses, electric/hybrid vehicles commonplace, free wifi in abundance...


This was featured on BBC R1 last week - the presenters calling random Swedes via the number looking for a 'Freida'.. it's as bizarre as it sounds.


Did people sign up for this or was it involuntarily and anyone, including those who don't want to be bothered, will get calls?


People sign up. There is also a http://twitter.com/sweden that is also run by citizens who sign up (it rotates every week).


Not just citizens! I was fortunate to be asked to tweet as @sweden last year and I've only been living here for a few years.


Cool! A happy mistake to get corrected.


Ireland also does that: https://twitter.com/ireland


How does that twitter profile switching work technically. Is there actual shadow account support available to Pro Twitter accounts?


"Here you go, the password is bfGeAgwRHU5bwMNd."

Some technical problems don't need technical solutions.


So there is some kind of 2fa that prevents whover has the account that week from changing the password and email?


They don't just give the account to random people. It's always people with already some kind of social media presence, and stealing an account as well known as @Sweden is not something someone like that would just do.


tweetdeck (now owned by twitter) officially supports team access to twitter accounts. So you can add someone to the team account and let them tweet using the handle, and revoke the access a week later easily.

However, because tweetdeck isn't available on mobile devices, most of these rotated accounts end up using password sharing.


It's right on the page:

> WHO ANSWERS WHEN I CALL? Everyone who lives in Sweden is able to register as an ambassador.


We had a similar initiative but with other purpose here in Brussels after the November terrorist attacks on Paris

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/01/09...


Similarly, the @Sweden Twitter account is given to a different random Swede every week.


The abuse of the @Sweden Twitter account is obvious -- just look at the lebanese immigrant Elias Kreidy who wrote “I’m the immigrant fking your daughter while you’re trying to sleep ignoring her moans calling me ‘daddy'”.

Now imagine this guy answering a phone line as an ambassador for the country!

NSFW article about the tweet: http://www.infowars.com/im-the-immigrant-fking-your-daughter...


This site seems to be run by a conspiracy theorist [1]. Next time a more reasonable source would probably be in order.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_%28radio_host%29


http://www.friatider.se/jag-ar-invandraren-som-knullar-din-d...

http://curatorsofsweden.com/curator/elias-kreidy/

Use Google Translate. Obviously English sources for Swedish news is hard to find. It is, afaik, not the first the time @sweden account has been used for trolling by douches.


Got a link to an article by anyone who doesn't think the moon landings are fake or that the US government was behind 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing?

I've no idea if that article is factual or not but let's not uncritically link to infowars.net, eh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_(radio_host)#Religi...


https://mobile.twitter.com/sweden/tweets

Primary source, but I haven't checked what it says.


Don't you think it'd be highly likely that the offending tweets were deleted by the account?


There is an American living in Sweden that is answering calls. He's got some interesting perspectives on life in Sweden. Not sure if he is still taking calls or not.


Nobody has mentioned the language issue yet?

Unfortunately what I've seen implies they talk in English. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But my son has been taking French language class in school and this provides the obvious extension to their idea of "talk to a random French-speaking person" or whatever other language someone wants to learn. Something like that probably already exists anyway. I suppose there would be the predictable issues with most foreign language learners being minors.


I've visited Sweden quite a few times and have travelled around quite a bit. I didn't meet a single person who couldn't speak English to some extent. I didn't meet a single person under about 50 who wasn't completely fluent.


In practice, all swedes are bilingual english (yes, including young kids).


I can't image the US ever doing this.


Maybe do it at the state level?

If nothing else it would be good to hear the different accents :-)


Imagine it quickly being turned off due to abuse.


I've troubled imagining how you can abuse this though.


Never heard of a prank call?


it says "talk about anything". How could you prank that ?


Men furiously masterbating on the other end of the line might ruin the experience for a few people.


Depends on the people, doesn't it?


"Is your refrigerator running?"


"Yes it is, are your doors unlocked?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSxP3sUYjU4


Well yeah, why?


"Is your refrigerator running?"

"Yes."

"Well, you’d better go catch it!"

(Click.)


Do swedes get to opt out of this?


It's opt in. In a radio segment the other day they said 6k people have volunteered. Which makes it very much non-random, but still, cute concept.


probably a good thing, you wouldn't want most of the calls to be answered by people very unhappy to be cold-called by some random foreigner...


The fact that they are volunteers doesn't change the fact that it's random, it just changes the set from which the random values are selected.


You have to actually opt in, as an ambassador.


From what I can gather from the FAQ, it's entirely opt-in. Swedes sign up to be cultural ambassadors.


Reminder: A trumped-up Swedish arrest warrant is the reason that Julian Assange has been trapped for years inside the Ecuadorian embassy in London and denied his right to asylum... all for journalism that made the US government look bad.

Don't travel to Sweden. Don't support the Swedish government in any way. They are cooperating in a large-scale effort to censor the types of things you can read about in the newspaper.


Watch the Swedish Prime Minister answer The Swedish Number.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S087OHdCG8I


I can only praise the idea and wish it to be an initiative that others follow. It sure helps connect people around the globe.


I'm working on an application, submitted to fellowship, that will allow people to confess about something and others will be able to comment on this confession.

This topic makes clear that I need really good, and fast, moderation tools


The prime minister answering the call :)

http://youtu.be/S087OHdCG8I


Skype has something similar back in 2005. You could ring random person and have a chat.

I dont understand obsession about Sweden. It is expensive country in decline with high crime. There are better places in Europe.


I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous statement. I live in Stockholm. I'm a Swede and grew up here; No, crime is not generally a large problem in Sweden. In reality crime is not a big issue anywhere in Scandinavia. You can find some statistics here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... and here: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/...


We're in 64th place for crime, just behind UK and Australia and way behind the US (obviously). But Japan is absolutely great if you're looking for low crime rates, and the food is fantastic too.

http://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp


That index claims that there is less crime in Colombia and Russia than in the US. Also that there is less crime in Azerbaijan than in New Zealand.


Yes, sorry that was a terrible reference; I should have been more careful. But take instead the murder rate from Wikipedia (which gets stats from the UN): Sweden is in place 205 out of 218 countries and no other nordic country is lower except Iceland (and the rate in Iceland is not accurately measurable since they had only a single murder).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

This despite the fact we're in the top ten for gun ownership: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_c...


Compare Sweden and Denmark. All countries around Sweden have lower crime rate.


In decline? Sweden had the highest growth rate in Europe in the last quarter of last higher. Highest population growth rate in the EU. How do you define decline? Or crime for that matter :) Sweden does not have high crime. I'm Irish, living in Sweden. I know high crime.


Lived there in 2012 for 6 months. What an amazing country, probably the best place in Europe to have a family. Stockholm is one of the most beautiful and safest capitals in the world.


Any sources on that?



No, I tried to find some screenshots, but its 11 years ago. Current skype does not have this feature.


It's not the part about Skype that needs sources...


Swede-roulette


This reminds me of https://mapc.am/, a browser based variant.



Does the Swede in question get notified beforehand about the source of the call?


No. They simply get a call where the caller ID is the "Sweden number". However, they can hang up at any time if getting abuse calls.


I wonder how long will it last until it is filled with junk calls


Cisco Web Reputation is blocking this ___domain for malware.


Another case of malware blocking gone wrong. Well, it’s not malware, but if you don’t trust it, you can probably use the archive.org version of the site.


Ingenious; Will also reduce suicides;


Let's clear this up once and for all; That Sweden has a high suicide rate is a rumour and not true. Sweden's suicide rate is below the average of the OECD countries. Feel free to read up on it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Sweden


Low tech chatroulette.


[flagged]


Also quite likely, it is due to the fact that Swedish rape law is quite different from many other countries in 2 aspects that have significant effect on statistics:

a) Every form of sex without consent is classified as rape, including "too drunk/asleep to say no" and sex within a marriage b) Every incident is recorded separately

So if a person is raped 5 times by his/her spouse, this would lead to 5 rapes in the Swedish statistics, as opposed to zero times (b/c within marriage) or 1 time (b/c same offender and victim) in many other places.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden


We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11474210 and marked it off-topic.


[flagged]


We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines, despite several warnings and requests to stop.


[flagged]


Oh, a freshly made troll account accompanied by his "friends".


What exactly do you mean?


The far-right in Sweden have a habit of creating fake accounts in the purpose of spreading racist propaganda.


> The far-right in Sweden have a habit of creating fake accounts in the purpose of spreading racist propaganda

Does it indeed? And recounting a bit of statistics is considered far-right?


Creating fake accounts to inflate perceived numbers of people who would answer in arabic sounds more like misrepresenting statistics...?


Or using an anonymous account for fear of being labelled a "far right extremist"?


Or maybe it's a form of harmless-but-pointed civil disobedience by people who don't want their society to merge with those of the Middle East.


Much like how blackface is a harmless-but-pointed take on American race relations?


False equivalence. Blackface was not civil disobedience. Not even sure why you're bringing that up unless it is to tie white guilt in America to white guilt in Sweden.


Assuming best intentions on the part of everyone involved (Which, let's face it, is being too charitable):

No, it was white people pretending to be black people, with the intent of caricaturing them, without having any sense of propriety or mindfullness.

This is white people pretending to be of Arabic origin, with the intent of caricaturing them, without any sense of propriety or mindfullness.

Since when is calling a racist spade a spade white guilt?


Who said anything about anyone 'caricaturing' people of Arabic origin? They spoke the language. That is not by itself a 'caricature'.

Moreover, blackface was done to be funny (you know, like an actual caricature). This is done to make a political point.

If it was Americans answering a phone line like this with an exaggerated Texas accent, you wouldn't bat an eye. That's how we know you're driven by white guilt.


If you would prefer, you could replace 'blackface' with 'speaking ebonics.' I'm sure that would be a real hoot. Eveybody, laugh at the white man pretending to be a black man who can barely speak understandable English!

I wonder what kind of political statement that would make...

A caricature is 'a picture, description, or imitation of a person or thing in which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic or grotesque effect.' Blackface absolutely qualifies. Pretending to speak another language/dialect for grotesque effect absolutely qualifies.

And yes, if America had a large group of people who would put on black hoods, and stand on metaphorical soapboxes, shouting about how Texans are destroying the country, how they are rapists and thieves, and they should be sent back to <Wherever>, I'd have a problem with that, too. For some reason, though, this form of racism doesn't seem to be particularly popular...


The intent behind the two instances is different. With blackface, it was part of entertainment, not political protest. With this Sweden thing (which I'm assuming is legitimate, as I've yet to see a source by the person claiming it, although I've asked), the intent seems clear, to me, to be political protest of the perceived dilution of their culture.

Now if black people in America were wearing white face to politically protest gentrification, I would say that's more equivalent to this Sweden thing than historical blackface.


Source?


The Swedish left has gone completely off the rails, to the point where merely addressing a demographic shift gets you accused of spreading "racist propaganda". When the Swedish authorities cover up mass sexual assaults because they were committed by a particular group, that's not propaganda, that's just good work - we wouldn't want those imaginary SS divisions to take advantage of such inconvenient realities.


This whole issue appears to be virtually unknown outside Scandinavian circles - and to some degree inside Sweden, whose print and broadcast media are to all intents and purposes heavily censored.

I had a Swedish girlfriend for a while. She moved to Denmark, where I live. And within a month changed her entire outlook on the demographics of her native land.

It is actually getting serious. Artists are jailed for their work in Sweden these days. Malmø is going out of control. The country is in a downward spiral of violence and chaos, and in deep, deep denial.

The merest mention of these issues automatically trigger the full brunt of rightist extremism accusations. And a predictable loss of karma points.


It's Denmark that's the outlier. By far the least welcoming to foreigners (i.e. "racist") of all Western countries. Source: Max Fischer, Washington Post (https://twitter.com/Amazing_Maps/status/691025214952624128)


Sweden today is probably the most arabized country in Europe.


... says he who lives in Denmark?

Numbers aside, there's a lot more to cultural changes than merely existing in a country. During my time in Sweden I found people from all over the world in droves. Africa/ME didn't stand out in any way and it seems like anyone who ever talks about this stuff any other way hasn't even stepped foot in Sweden.

Come visit southern france some time to see what an "arabized" region looks like.


Do you have some numbers on that?


Yes, and so do you. Sweden actually does have a statistics bureau. And they do make statistics. They just wrap them up real discreet.

Native swedes are becoming a minority in Malmø, the third largest city in Sweden, and apparently home turf for one of the Brussels bombers.


Oh come on. 16% of the population is foreign-born, of which half are Europeans. Of the top ten immigrant countries, only one is arab (Iraq), and they constitute 1.3% of the population. The many Syrians who came last fall are not in the statistics yet, but will likely also amount to less than 2%.

In Malmö, less than 30% are foreign-born, and the largest group is (unsurprisingly) Danish, along with Iraqi and former Yugoslavia.

http://www.migrationsinfo.se/demografi/fodelseland/


Oh yeah. And the hand grenades, and the constant shootings, and the rapes, and the burning schools, and the burned out cars, my god, it's all so quaint and Swedish.


Please provide links to the data and numbers in that case.



Malmö

Foreign born persons | Population

102,047 | 322,574

Foreign background | Swedish background

139 240 | 183 334

Seems pretty normal for a cosmopolitan city. Doesn't look like Atilla the Hun is at the gates, either.

The equivalent for New York City[1] is:

Foreign born persons | Population

3,136,592 | ~8,344,000

[1] http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/population-geography/fore...

Toronto [2], on the other hand is ~49% foreign-born. Vancouver is 45%.

[2] http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2007/12/05/a_city_of_unmatch...


Some people like to interpret "foreigner"... differently. Confirmation bias is a wonderful thing.


I think people are mostly concerned with muslims, in effect, whether they're arab or not. Take the Netherlands for example, it features a guy called Wilders who frequently talks about Eurabia (instead of Europe) and calls the labour party (partij van de arbeid) the partij van de arabieren (arabs). When in reality, 90% of muslims in the Netherlands are Berbers and Turks, not arabs. There's an anti-arab sentiment because people are ignorant, but it really doesn't matter if you're arab or not. You can be berber, pakistani, turkish, persian or kurdish and you'll be seen as an arab, which is wrong, and a muslim, which is usually correct. So it probably doesn't make all that much sense to talk about arabs.

So Islam instead, in Sweden:

> Islam has, as of 2009, 106,327 officially registered adherents among citizens and residents of Sweden. Other sources set the figure at roughly 450,000 to 500,000, which accounts for around 5% of the total Swedish population, including people who would not really regard themselves as Muslims.[1]

Of course, the distribution is quite lopsided and very much geared towards the big cities. Further, immigrant families (at least those from lower socioeconomic status, e.g. usually not say Iranian immigrants) tend to have a higher birthrate. Further, at old age immigrants tend to move back to their home country, relative to wanting to work in Europe at a younger age. The combination of these three effects: concentration in cities, relatively high birthrate and relatively high incoming young migrants vs outgoing older migrants, makes for large young populations in the big cities. And young people themselves have certain characteristics compared to older age groups (across ethnicities): relatively higher propensity to be present on the street, rather than at home, relatively higher unemployment (i.e. again, overrepresented in the street, underrepresented in workplaces), relatively higher levels of crime etc.

Such that a population of just 5% can be 15-20% in certain cities, a population which is disproportionately confronted on the street in a criminal or unemployed fashion, compared to other age groups (and due to the demographic age characteristic of particular ethnicities, also compared to other ethnicities). This can skew the personal experience of citizens of these cities in a way that average statistics wouldn't explain.

Combine this with further concentrations, like within neighbourhoods, and you get groups of people who feel overwhelmed by the demographic changes. For example, say 5% are 'foreign' in a particular country, but they're 4x more likely to live in a large city, and have 2x as many kids than the national average. Well then you've got 40% of the kids who are foreign in that city. And in a particular neighbourhood in that city, perhaps these foreigners are 2x more likely to live, such that if you send your kid to school, perhaps say 75% of the kids don't look like your kid, nor do the parents look like you or speak your language, perhaps even half of the teachers don't look like you. And for these people, I get it. I get the fear. I'm not saying it's right, but that it's very understandable. Of course these numbers are just made up, but you get my point.

I'm from a muslim family myself and I get frustrated with all the racist bs, I mean it's overwhelming what I faced as a teenager looking to shape his identity. Every day there were articles about people like me in the newspapers, describing me or my peers or family as barbaric, as having 'genes geared towards crime', as being backwards, less intelligent etc etc. Don't get me wrong, I reject all of that. But I do appreciate that some of the native white population in Europe feels threatened, and that it's not just blatant xenophobia. Indeed there are pockets where they're no longer the majority, and where the momentum is becoming disproportionate, and that can be scary. And simply saying 'but it's just 5%', which is something I say all the time, is true in most cases, but the personal experience due to many factors (some of which mentioned above) can make that 5% seem like a lot more. Hell my gf is a teacher and she was grading an essay about a particular muslim ethnic group in my country, who number 2.3% or so. The girl had gotten that figure wrong by an order of magnitude, she cited more than 20%. My gf was frustrated that she could get it so wrong (i.e. that such a large mistake didn't ring any bells for her to recheck her sources), until I showed her that in our city, for people of that kids' age, the number is actually quite close to 20%, and even higher in certain neighbourhoods, and that it was perfectly normal for that wrongful 20%+ figure not to be a red flag for her.

Anyway as to your question, I'm sorry I don't know what the exact figures are in Malmo. Just that 'arabs' is probably not the right statistic to look up, Muslims is an improvement, that they're 5%, but that I can imagine it's much higher in cities, and that the negative 'experience/feeling' of this percentage can be even greater than that due to various demographic factors.

Lastly, beware that, as you obviously know, statistics can be misleading. Social issues particularly are sensitive to definitions. Is a 3rd-generation migrant, whose parents both were both in Sweden, lived there for 50 years and have a 20 year old child, still seen as a foreigner? Is a brit who lives in Sweden included in the figures, making the natives a minority? etc. This stuff matters a lot. In the Netherlands for example, the king and queen are both foreigners on the basis of definitions used in the Netherlands, as are their children. In fact the royal family's children are specified further, as being 'non-western foreigners' (i.e. not say from Europe or the US, but rather from say Africa, Asia or South America). In any city they live, they're reducing the percentage of the native white population and increasing the number of non-western foreigners, which may be a scary conclusion to many, even though nobody has a problem with these kids [0]. Yet this is the official definition used in government, academia, media, education etc. So if someone says 'x is becoming a minority', well consider carefully on the basis of which definitions that's true.

[0] http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/sites/default/files/styles/inline_la...


Regarding the racist tendencies in the Netherlands: take heart, not everybody shares them. Wilders may be a very loud mouthed politician but he still represents just a minority.


Thanks :)


Not at all. Malmö is one of my favorite cities in the world... I've visited there every year for the last 3 years, and it's still very Swedish. Granted, I haven't been since the Syrian refugee situation began, so it may have changed somewhat this year.

Worth pointing out there is something of a rivalry between Copenhagen (Denmark) & Malmö (Sweden), which are just 14km apart via bridge. The difference between the cultures is explored in an excellent crime drama called Brön/Brøn (The Bridge)... imagine a Swedish female Sheldon Cooper solving murders with her Danish counterpart. Worth watching if you can ever find it.


Sorry for nitpicking, but the Swedish/Danish name of the crime drama is spelled Bron/Broen. Brön could mean breads in some Swedish dialects (and is also slang for boobs). Glad to hear you like our city! :)


Nitpicking is entirely welcome, it's the only way I'll learn! And a very worthy nitpick, since I misspelled both the Swedish & Danish... ouch!

Next time I'm in Malmö I owe you a coffee at Espresso House! I wonder if they still have the Australian flag at their cafe in Emporia. Malmö made my friends and I feel so welcome in May 2013 and we've never forgotten it!


> home turf for one of the Brussels bombers

Scientists agree that 100% of terrorists come from earth. What are we going to do with that information, now?


You can be Swedish speaking arabic, too. ;)


OT: i submitted this 3'days ago, I wonder how this got resubmitted.



I thought you can't post the same link twice?




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