I'm from Salt Lake City and a former Mormon. I want to emphasize former because I'm in no way affiliated with the church and have a bit of lifelong bitterness toward it (used to be much worse, mostly over it now) and while I think a lot of things about Mormonism are completely stupid, they sure know how to build cities and be settlers and pioneers.
I think that mentality has passed through generations and it's really exciting to see this kind of advanced utopian dream come to life, even if it pisses off neighbors and if it ultimately fails.
I'm obsessed with cities and I would love to see this turn into the vision that Joseph smith had in mind, even if all his other visions are laughable loads of whatever.
From a sustainable community aspect it is fascinating.
However, look at what he's proposing. Edit: lots of people moving to a state of 600,000 people, with the first locations built up around areas with strong connections to Joseph Smith.
It probably won't work. However, should he get only 60,000 people and the majority of them Mormons, yeah, Vermont changes completely. Mormons tend to vote along church lines, they outbreed everyone else, as you said, they know how to colonize.
I don't want to cast a wet blanket over all Mormons, but you can see why this would make people unhappy. Vermont with its socialist senator could became East Utah in a generation.
“I’m the darn guy who caused all these problems,” Hall tells the seated group by way of introduction. He doesn’t let his PR handlers do any talking, and he doesn’t rein in the extent of his vision. Despite Vermont’s beauty, he points out, the state has high levels of pollution and sprawl, paired with poverty and unemployment. He recounts visiting Vermont as a boy, memories of which, along with Smith’s birthplace and memorial, drew him to this state, and says he would preserve the state’s natural grandeur. “In my crazy mind, two-thirds of Vermont would be wilderness and one-third would be the farms that are occupied, and you’d have 20 million people in Vermont,” he tells the group, slapping the table. “That’s a crazy idea. But that’s what I can lay out.”
That's about double the population density of New Jersey (currently the most densely populated state). On the other hand if you add New York City into New Jersey you have over 17 million people in an area smaller than Vermont.
There is no connection to actual Mormonism here. If there was, Hall would certainly not be encountering serious opposition in Provo, of all places.
Hall's practices are immediately suspect because he's advertising his affiliation with the Mormon Church as a major part of this endeavor. It's extremely common for scammers to try to exploit religious people by falsely claiming some sort of sanction or approval from religious bodies.
I also wish Hall luck in building a sustainable, walkable, high-end development, and in reading other articles about his clashes with neighbors in Provo I was even kind of rooting for him, but I'm really put off by the insinuation that either the Mormon Church or Mormon doctrine has anything to do with it.
How can there be no connection. The guy is mormon, the inspiration is directly from Smith's writings, etc. I don't know anything about the writings, but from the article, it seems Smith was fairly clear in wanting to do something like this.
Of course, yes this is an entrepreneur wanting to do a grandiose thing, but to say there's no connection is silly.
(I'm not a Mormon, and have no horse in this race.)
Because in Mormon (and Christian) eschatology, Zion, the New Jerusalem, is a real thing. It's not just one man's experiment to build a utopia. Zion is swamped in religious significance. It can't be built without specific forms of divine help, and it's not Zion without specific markers, like divinely-authorized temples.
Smith's early drawings are good as far as they go, but they are non-canonical. They are of only historical interest to the Church. It is fine that Hall has drawn inspiration from them, but it is not fine to imply that there is any connection between Zion the Mormon Concept and Hall's NewVistas project.
A copy of an old drawing isn't the distinctive characteristic of Zion. The distinctive characteristic is that a group of people within a specific geographic region are so completely realizing their religious precepts that divine beings make a home there.
Joseph Smith's teachings re: Zion are meaningless outside of that context, and invoking Zion in any other way is sacrilege (doubly so when it's to promote a commercial endeavor).
I think what he means is that mormon concept of Zion/New Jerusalem cannot be brought about by someone with his standing in the mormon church. It would need to be initiated by the leaders of the church who presumably act in God's name. In fact, the ___location of the New Jerusalem has already been prophesied. It is supposed to be built up in Missouri. It was already started but never finished. You can go and see where the corner stones for the temples were placed decades ago but never completed. It doesn't mean this guy can't create a nice community but it will never be Zion in the mormon sense of the word.
Source: I was raised mormon and my family used to go visit the ___location where Zion was to be created.
I don't think it necessarily has to be initiated top-down. But the thing is that this is nothing like Zion, except that it resembles an old drawing. The physical layout of Zion is an unimportant implementation detail. Not only does Hall have no authority, but he also, as far as I know, has not expressed any intention for this to be an attempt at real Zion, and even if he had, it wouldn't matter. One man can't make Zion by himself. Not even the President of the Church can do that, which is abundantly clear from a cursory review of Smith's biography. It requires a people that so fully live the principles of the Celestial Kingdom that divine beings can take up residence among them (see D&C 105:5 [0]). Hall may believe he has found a great city layout in the archives of the Church, and if so, more power to him, but this all has no relation to the real Zion, which is the pure in heart. That's why I keep saying these have nothing to do with each other, except that Hall is copying an old drawing by Smith.
If someone was making a serious attempt at building Zion, they would do so by committing themselves to teaching the pure doctrine, engaging in as much service as possible, helping other people fix their economic woes in a self-sufficient, sustainable manner that doesn't necessitate a patron (which basically means supplying the basics while they learn an in-demand skill), and so on. In short, they would do all the things the Church is already doing. All an individual can do is seek to augment that.
So, again, while Hall's project is admirable, it has no relation to Zion, because Zion is Zion only once a heavenly people inhabit it. It's not about building a city out to a certain spec.
Edit: I guess I partially disagree. In order for you to be a 'True Believing Mormon' you would not be able to embark on a project as large as creating Zion/New Jerusalem without the express permission/mandate from the first presidency. Anything outside of this would make you an apostate in their eyes. I don't necessarily subscribe to all of that but the rules are clear within the church proper.
>In order for you to be a 'True Believing Mormon' you would not be able to embark on a project as large as creating Zion/New Jerusalem without the express permission/mandate from the first presidency. Anything outside of this would make you an apostate in their eyes. I don't necessarily subscribe to all of that but the rules are clear within the church proper.
I don't think this is correct. Everyone is a participant in creating the New Jerusalem insofar as they working to make themselves and those around them more heavenly.
The physical buildings and structure are practically an afterthought. They'll come into being once the people who can live there exist. I don't believe that there will be a call out or a "project" embarked upon per se; I know a lot of Mormons expect the prophet to say "We're going to Missouri" out of the blue one day, but I don't think it will happen that way. Even in Joseph Smith's day, when proclamations along those lines did occur, the process was long and gradual, and ultimately used to facilitate the journey out to the Saints' settling place in Utah. Saints who expected immediate redemption were quickly and repeatedly disappointed. It will be the same way with the New Jerusalem. It will be built gradually, almost without being noticed.
I believe the people will continue improving, begin by happenstance to converge in the appointed place, and the city will spring up around it (this is especially plausible if you believe other End Times revelation that indicates people will be forced to flee most populated places). Temples will be built to accommodate the population. Eventually the Church will move HQ there. Around this time there may be a formal call or encouragement for people to come out to the center place in a reasonable, orderly manner, as they're able.
Yes, the Priesthood has to be involved to a certain extent, but that part will occur automatically as the people qualify. We already see that with temple building; the First Presidency designates places for new temples if they believe the Saints are qualified to care for one. The same pattern will be followed here. As the people in this place improve, the Law of Consecration will begin to be practiced, the people's hearts will be prepared, and the Church will facilitate it within its existing structure by expanding the relevant bishopric's responsibilities to the full breadth of their scriptural mandate.
So yes, the Priesthood has to be there to provide some of the edifices and oversee some of the practices. But it will be there once the people are ready, and it's not going to happen all at once.
The only way that anyone can actually work to build Zion is to make themselves, and work to influence those around them to be, worthy to live there.
I'm as TBM as they come, so if you have contradictory evidence, I'd be interested in reviewing it.
I think that mentality has passed through generations and it's really exciting to see this kind of advanced utopian dream come to life, even if it pisses off neighbors and if it ultimately fails.
I'm obsessed with cities and I would love to see this turn into the vision that Joseph smith had in mind, even if all his other visions are laughable loads of whatever.