This is entirely the fault of conservatives. There is no such thing as legitimate conservative thought in the US any longer. The entire movement has been hijacked by fundamentalist Christians and racist rich people. Aligning yourself with such an ideology rightfully has a serious social cost now.
As a brown person, do you know what my first thoughts of someone who describes themselves as "conservative" are? I'll give you a hint: it has nothing to do with fiscal policy. You can't blame people for not wanting to be made uncomfortable in that way.
There are many news outlets that provide high-quality conservative viewpoints. e.g. The American Conservative, Reason, Washington Examiner etc. The insightful and different viewpoints here help me understand an issue better.
Several of my friends are conservatives - and they span ethnicities, religions and economic classes. I find conversations with these folks quite insightful and fun. A bit harder to find these folks in Silicon Valley but not impossible. ps: I'm brown too :)
Do their points of view represent anyone that has their hands on the lever of power in the US? If one were to argue that 'high quality' means that it represents the views and policy of those currently in government, then which publications would you select?
Excellent question. The 3 periodicals I mention above represent a more classical conservative viewpoint, i.e. Paul Ryan rather than Trump. But those two overlap at times so the distinction isn't clear.
What I like is that these sites help me understand the other side of questions like gun rights/control. I may not agree with it but I'm less belligerent about my views because I appreciate their sincere alternative viewpoints.
I think there’s a wide difference between “classical” conservatism of the likes of George H. W.; and the tea party/trump/nazi ideology soup. I think the first kind is fine and welcome to an extent. It’s racism that’s not.
>I think there’s a wide difference between “classical” conservatism of the likes of George H. W.; and the tea party/trump/nazi ideology soup. I think the first kind is fine and welcome to an extent.
Precisely. We need conservatism. We need that part of our conscience which says "well, hold on a minute", or "hey we can't afford that" in order to function properly as a democracy. It's loss is a tragedy, and the corruption of those ideals over the past 30 years into what it has become is breaking our country.
The problem is that the first group is lumped into the second one. I live in the Midwest, which by all rights is a very conservative region of the country even in the urbanized areas, and conservatives are generally regarded by liberals as bumpkins that accidentally wandered into the city, even when re-iterating their disapproval of racism, sexism, and the alt-right until blue (ha) in the face. This is what's driving classical conservatives into the closet, and potentially causing them to actually embrace the more extremist ideologies.
> The problem is that the first group is lumped into the second one.
Why wouldn't they be? The "crazy" ones aren't being elected by no one. They rose to power because voters embraced them. If you don't want to be lumped in as crazy then quit supporting crazy.
> potentially causing them to actually embrace the more extremist ideologies.
I really, really hate this argument. It's just trying to absolve people of their responsibility for choosing white nationalism and other reprehensible ideas. If you joined up because some arrogant jerk offended you one day then maybe you weren't a very good person to begin with.
Besides, how many liberals do you see pushing hateful ideologies and communism because they are sick of being called arrogant elites?
>Why wouldn't they be? The "crazy" ones aren't being elected by no one. They rose to power because voters embraced them. If you don't want to be lumped in as crazy then quit supporting crazy
I don't disagree that the Republican party has been hijacked. Personally, I am non-partisan and generally will vote for whichever candidates lean more towards a liberal-libertarian platform, be they R or D. Lately, that's been a lot more D than R.
>If you joined up because some arrogant jerk offended you one day then maybe you weren't a very good person to begin with
Hatred and ostracization make people go to very dark places. A lot of people are lumping people who ideologically believe in lower taxes and fewer government services with white supremacists. I'm obviously not condoning people going to those places, but acting like putting these people on blast and calling them awful because their beliefs partially overlap with those of a genuinely awful group of people is at the least not constructive.
The republicans have been marching towards the tea party side of things for a long time. So even if a person is reasonable themselves their is a very good chance they support unreasonable people.
Personally I think who you vote for is a damn good indicator of who you are as a person.
Let's make the sentence read:
" The entire movement has been hijacked by sexual deviants and people who don't want to work for a living. Aligning yourself with such an ideology rightfully has a serious social cost now."
Does it seem more offensive to you now?
Failure to look for the merit in the other person's point of view is a mistake. There are good conservative as there are good liberals. Using inflammatory rhetoric (as the author did) does nothing to disprove one's ignorance of the other person's point of view.
If you can't see that republicans have quite a bit of xenophobia and racism in their ranks then you need to open up your damn eyes. Instead of talking about how it's wrong to feel that way think for a minute about why this person feels that way. People thinking this way is what happens when 10s of millions of people vote for a man who is anti-immigrant, racist, and encourages white nationalists.
Using HN for political battle will eventually get your account banned, especially if you break the civility rules in the process, such as you both did in this nasty partisan spat. All such stuff is unwelcome here, regardless of your or the other person's politics.
As a brown person, do you know what my first thoughts of someone who describes themselves as "conservative" are? I'll give you a hint: it has nothing to do with fiscal policy. You can't blame people for not wanting to be made uncomfortable in that way.