Honestly, less drama, fair enough...but sadly it's not drama, it's fact albeit in small numbers, this 100% happened as we found out from Snowden docs and other leaks! That wasn't really the point i was trying to make though, and if it's happened or not doesn't really need to hold true for the basis of my comparison to hold true as a basis of english arguments.

Also, I gave up hunting karma on HN a while back, i'd rather speak my mind honestly than be artificially censored by chasing a number.

and IIRC, that it was/is the "preferred" method because it's easier to pull off/harder to detect than most other methods.