After all this point-display discussion for comments, how about another change. I just thought that all this started with a sort of "karma-hunt". If we display upvotes, but don't count it towards a users karma, couldn't that help to increase discussion and the amount of good comments and decrease the amount of bad submissions? maybe this has been said before and i'm just not aware of it, but maybe not, or maybe this is not how hacker news works and i'm just not getting it... anyway, just an idea!