I disagree with your disagreement!

I've had good closed headphones before, and they're... okay... but nothing like a good active noise cancelling headphones.

For example, the Sony WH-1000XM3 is already a relatively good closed headphone! If you put one on with the noise cancelling disabled, it still provides a quite decent amount of isolation. But then instant you press that little switch... near total silence.

I used to tell people that first class tickets on planes are a waste of money because: You're still on a plane, it's still noisy, you just get better food.

But now with my Sony headphones, cattle class feels like first class. It's bliss: I can sleep. I can watch movies and actually understand what people are saying. I can read a book without feeling like there's a running hair dryer behind my head the whole time. The cries of babies are completely inaudible.

> I used to tell people that first class tickets on planes are a waste of money because: You're still on a plane, it's still noisy, you just get better food.

You also get more legroom and a less cramped seat.

If you're flying "only" five hours this may not be a big deal. If you're flying >10 hours (e.g., across the Pacific), then it can make a huge difference to comfort.

Depends how much you value the extra money.

First is nice when I get upgraded, but I'd rather take say Qatar Business than BA first.

That said, the headphones I has on a US Airways Business from Manchester to Philidelphia were amazing - far better than the BA ones, so much that I bought a pair (QC25s) while I was in the States.

What with 2020 I haven't been on a plane for over a year now, and I've been on 3 trips on a train, so I've basically forgotten what "out and about" headphones are like. I do wear one on my ear if I'm watching something in bed (hook over ear). Never seen any wireless ones, fortunately I haven't downgraded from my iphone SE so can still use them.

> First is nice when I get upgraded, but I'd rather take say Qatar Business than BA first.

Yes: for some reason I missed "first".

The upgrade to at least business is probably worth it (budget permitting) for flights ≥8 hours, but going to first is probably diminishing returns.

>the Sony WH-1000XM3 is already a relatively good closed headphone

It is not. It is a great Bluetooth/NC headphone but certainly not a good closed one compared to other closed back phones specifically built for passive isolation. It is also targeted at consumers.

Have you actually tried the HD280PRO I specifically talked about? It is a professional headphone that is very popular with drummers for a reason.

You're arguing with someone who said the Sony headphones are relatively good, and saying they are not because there are better headphones out there? Also, you're arguing with someone who claims they are satisfied with the Sony headphones? Should they not be satisfied?

All I am saying is that NC should not be seen as the holy grail. If you look at my original comment I just said

1. Buy a good pair of closed back headphones 2. Take them on a flight 3. Make your choice

If AFTER you have done this, you still prefer NC (and are willing to pay it) then fine by me.

> It is also targeted at consumers i smell audiophile

I own the xm3, i own the Beyerdynamic DT770 which is way more popular with studios and drummers; passive isolation vs ANC is not even a discussion

I own xm3, DT770 and HD280 (and several other headphones). The difference in passive isolation between DT770 and HD280 is night and day.

But maybe this is just me :-)

I noticed their website mentions up to 32 dB attenuation. What does this mean in practice? A set of 3M Peltor X5 earmuffs have only 31 dB NRR, and NRR is a standard metric for ear protection. The Sennheisers don’t look anywhere near as isolating as the 3M muffs. Personally I use the construction earmuffs for drumming.

>I used to tell people that first class tickets on planes are a waste of money because: You're still on a plane, it's still noisy, you just get better food.

You get much more leg room. You are getting much more space than an economy.

If you aren't tall and you stretch your legs from time to time, it's not a big thing.

Now, business class or whatever they call the thing where you can recline your seat almost horizontally, that's something. I can't really sleep sitting.

Good business class configurations allow you to lie completely flat.

Depending on the configuration you may have a real (narrow) bed feeling, or you may be lying in a sort of tube with not much space to move, but definitely completely flat.

If the price is not outrageous I always go for a business flight on long haul.

The price delta is usually in the thousands of dollars though. That said, especially for trans-Pacific I'll often try to get an upgrade using a combination of miles and dollars.

I know, often the prices are absurd.

Absurd means in the 6000$ range from Europe to Asia and I agree that's over the top compared to, say, 700$ economy with a reasonable airline.

Then again upgrading is an option and sometimes really great bargains can be found.

I flew Zurich Bangkok return with Oman Air in business for less than 2'000 in February. In my opinion a very reasonable price for a great product.

It amuses me that there are people think "nah I won't spend the extra $3k to make my trip livable" while working an industry where 30 year olds are paid $500k a year for writing a bit of javascript.

Why would the amount other people in my industry make have an impact on what I can afford? Much less whether I'd put up with a little discomfort for an extra $3k in my pocket.

Also funny how you yourself come up with the ridiculous salary of $500k, something ~nobody here will ever make, as the amount that finally makes $3k sound trivial to you. I agree with that much. That's the salary that would make me finally consider paying $3k for leg room.

Most people in tech are not making $500K to write Javascript or anything else. And, even if you make a fair bit of money, $3K isn't a trivial sum to make even 12-16 hours of air travel a bit more comfortable. (It still isn't exactly fun even up front.) I do sometimes use miles and a co-pay to upgrade when I can but, generally speaking, I can get a lot more bang out of that money on other things whether meals or other experiences.

That's limited to the US West Coast, almost exclusively.

You need to be level 7+ in a FAANG anywhere else in the world to make anything near that. And you definitely won't be there with "a bit of Javascript".

Perhaps a bit off topic, but I am truly unable to use active noise-cancelling headphones. I'm not sure if it's just me being sensitive or if this is common:

Whenever I tried using noise cancelling headphones, I always felt what I can only describe as a high air pressure in my ears. The best I can describe it is the feeling of needing to pop my ears but popping them providing zero relief.

Is this common at all? Does everyone feel this but somehow are able to ignore it?

Anyway fully agree that good passive isolation goes a long way!

I had this feeling aswell, but the noice reduction was worth it for me. After a week or two of much usage at the office the feeling went away. So, atleast for me, getting used to them helped.

This is a pretty common complaint, I've seen numbers as high as 18-20% feel some sort of pressure, and upwards of 50-60% of those people feel enough discomfort that they don't use ANC.

I feel pressure almost immediately but it doesn't the level of even mild discomfort until 7-8 hours of continuous use (my employer provides a pair that have an ANC option). Even then I can deal with it for longer if I'm watching a movie or something after work.

For a long time I thought that this was the case for me too and stuck with passive noise cancelling headphones. Then I tried the Sony 1000MX3s and didn't experience that issue, and I realized I had only really ever tried the Bose QuietComforts before. If you haven't already, it could be worth trying different brands to see if the issue persists across different noise cancelling systems!

But if the issue is only a technology or firmware issue what exactly causes it? Is it like a standing wave of pressure below or above hearing range? The mistery bothers me as much as experiencing it.

I did some reading on this before I bought my last headphones and AFAIR , the cause seems to be that not all frequencies can be canceled to the same extent. It’s not actual pressure on your eardrums, but the effect triggers that feeling. Different headphones have different characteristics, so it’s worthwhile trying different models.

Yes it happens to a lot of people (but not all).

If you fall into this camp, then passive isolation is the only viable choice for you.

The following article goes into the technical details of this phenomenon. TLDR: it's harmless, caused by an unnatural increase in volume as you move across the frequency spectrum (from great noise cancellation at low frequencies to nearly none at mid-frequencies).

https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/178-eardru...

Earbuds don't tend to exhibit it nearly as much as headphones.

Thanks for putting an end to the mistery! Great write up!

yeah, I find active noise cancellation bothers my ears too. Back when going to offices was a thing, I would keep multiple sets of headphones at my desk: an open-back headphone for really clear sound quality that lets sound through so that I could hear people if they tried talking to me (I like the AKG K240 MKII's for this but beware you need a headphone amp for these), and closed-back headphones when I'm finding the external noise distracting. For passive isolation I use Vic Firth's isolation headphones, they're designed for drummers to use for monitoring while recording drum tracks. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IsoHdphV2--vic-firth...

also if you already have earbuds that you like but they don't give you enough isolation, you can always wear earbuds under construction earmuffs, which is what I was doing before getting the Vic Firth isolation headphones.

I have the same issue. I pretty much only use the noise cancellation on planes where it doesn't have that effect for me.

That’s a common experience. I could only wear Bose QC on a plane, where the trade of was worth it.

Interestingly the AirPods Pro are explicitly engineered to avoid this, and I don’t have this problem with them.

I wonder what the deal is with the Airpods Max?

I get the same feeling with Bose QC IIs, but on planes it's worth the quiet. That being said IEMs and actual earmuffs work pretty well too if you don't mind looking a bit silly.

I've literally never heard anyone make this argument before. It's wild.

Nice Sennheiser over-ear cans are okay on a plane, but honestly aren't as good as solid in-ear options (e.g., Etymotic).

Sennheisers (or others) with ANC that are also over ear are FAR AND AWAY superior. It's astonishing how nice it is for the drone of the plane to just VANISH vs. being merely muffled.

I'm not sure what you're aiming for here.

Is your claim that Sennheiser HD280PRO headphones do a better job than these? Because I've got a pair, and I agree 100% with the author: the first time I tried some noise-canceling headphones was the last time I took my HD280PROs on a flight.

If that's not your claim, then it doesn't seem like your statement makes any sense.

Sure, HD280PROs are better than not wearing anything over your ears. But the flying experience is dramatically different once you have active noise-cancelling headphones, so different that, euphemistically speaking, there's no going back.

I honestly have to assume you've never used ANC headphones on a plane if you're making this claim. As someone who does own the HD280PRO and several ANC headphones, there's no comparison at all for environments with a repetitive droning noise like an airplane.

Seconded; I'd also recommend Etymotic Research's line of earbuds, which combine earbuds and earplugs, including replaceable foam inserts.

Passive isolation most noticeably outperforms noise-cancelling for transient noises.

Yep, Etymotics are absolutely the gold standard in my opinion if you want a high quality sound experience while traveling (train, plane, etc.) I've had a crying baby directly in the seat in front of me for most of a 10 hour flight and didn't hear it with music on at a reasonable volume.

And the sound quality is really excellent for the price.

To provide a view from the opposite end of this spectrum, I use noise-canceling headphones over passive custom-fit earplugs on flights.

That is enormously different than my experience and I felt the need to respond because this is not healthy advice for your hearing. I have good closed back headphones and IEMs that isolate very well. My experience is that the airplane noise forces me to turn up the volume to unsafe levels and the audio quality is destroyed as well. Active Noise Canceling is a bit of absolute magic on the plane. The jet noise is almost eliminated and you can listen at safe levels with high fidelity. Plus, sustained loud noise can exacerbate jet lag. Having a quiet environment reduces post-flight fatigue. You're really doing yourself a disservice if you fly regularly without ANC.

For me at least, good noise canceling headphones make flying even quieter than the maximum rated earplugs I could find (because low frequency hum goes through almost any material)

I have a pair of in-ear headphones that isolate sound better than any Bose I've ever tried. It's just a matter of finding the right tip size to create a seal. My tips actually make a popping noise when I pull them out.

I have owned multiple pairs of that exact model. For $99 it's a great deal (they can take a beating... but not several beatings). But come on, the isolation is not even close, even to noise cancelling ear buds.

I own both the Sennheiser HD 280 Pro and the Bose QC35 II. The active noise cancelling Bose headphones are vastly better on a plane trip. The HD 280 Pros are just not very good at reducing ambient noise.

But passive isolation will allways struggle with low-frequency-sounds. Motor-sounds, like the engine on an airplane, is easy for active NC - while passive struggles with it.

I agree that good closed back over the ear headphones work well. The issue for me is that I travel light and never take something that big and heavy to use when flying.

Agreed. But the original article is about Airpods Max which are not small either. And he specifically talks about how heavy they are.

True. And I'd never buy a pair for that reason. (I wouldn't want them for travel and I don't need wireless or noise canceling for home.) For travel, I have in-ear Bose and (now) Airpod Pros. I wasn't interested in the original Bose over-ear for the same reason.