PRIVACY =! SECURITY

Unless privacy == security (i.e. operational security need privacy). It's laughably to take over Telegram accounts (or just join as an invisible listener) and because nothing is encrypted, you get the full message history.

Telegram has really, really great UI/UX and even DX regarding their API. Other than that it's a shit show.

I would never recommend using Whatsapp, but compared to Telegram, Whatsapp is a poster child.

Can you elaborate the claims regarding account takeover more in detail? I'm generally curious.

Is it because of SS7 confirmation of pins or what are you referring to?

Only if you trust Facebook to implement E2E encryption well in their proprietary code.

> I'm sorry, but that's not how computer software works. Anyone who knows what a basic block is can straightforwardly verify the claims WhatsApp is making.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11432096

I invite you to read the thread I linked, because this whole discussion has been rehashed several times over on HN already.

I’ll take that risk over no default e2ee on Telegram any day.

that sounds a bit like you'd prefer a certificate guaranteing that you will never die over one that pays when you do.

E2EE is in Telegram is disabled by default. Also, look at the jurisdictions Telegram operates from. Sketchy would be an understatement.

While I agree that the Arab Emirates are suboptimal at best, you have to be fair and mention that the previous countries Telegram operated in all wanted the encryption keys. Including Germany, France and Switzerland.

Not many options to be neutral in the spying game if the EU is ruled out.