I am curious how people feel about wisdom and ethics of acting in ways that are actively hostile to the interests of a previous employer immediately after quitting?
Regardless of the technical facts, unless there is a very strong ethical argument in favor (for example, say, the employer is outright lying in a highly fraudulent way and customers need to know) .... I find this sort of behavior to be slightly unprofessional. But I am curious if others feel the same ... and does it make a difference that it is Oracle?
2. As long as you're employed, you either speak the company line, or carefully avoid commenting, in order to avoid breaking rule 1. If you can't neither avoid commenting or lying, you should quit.
3. Once you're no longer employed, you should avoid spilling company secrets, disclosing confidential information, etc. Beyond that, see rule 1.
I'd be concerned if he:
1. Went to conferences and recommended MySQL, despite thinking it was a bad product
2. Went to conferences and trashed MySQL, despite being employed in part to promote MySQL
Both of those would be, in different way, unprofessional. But what he did? Seems fine to me. I certainly don't think he was obligated to share his unvarnished thoughts about MySQL, but I don't think he was obligated not to either.
Why does "unprofessional" matter here? They're not on company time. If it's accurate, and that's their experience, that should be shared. I'm tired of a culture that thinks professional means advocating against yourself and your peers. Talk about employers, talk about customers, talk about salaries, if a company exec is bad to work with, talk about it. That gives insight for other devs so they're not finding themselves in the same position.
I completely agree with you. If they are willing to publicly trash a former employer and colleagues, what would stop them from trashing me as a new employer? I would be hesitant to hire someone who did this.
They are entitled to write whatever they want, but not taking into account the feelings of the people they were presumably working close with in posting something like this shows a startling lack of empathy.
I'm sure this developer is a genius, but I would take empathy over brilliance every time.
Edit: To be clear, if there is anything unethical or toxic about the workplace culture, they should absolutely post about it publicly to help fix it if that's the best route to address it. This post did not read that way to me. But that's just my opinion.
> I completely agree with you. If they are willing to publicly trash a former employer and colleagues, what would stop them from trashing me as a new employer?
I mean, presumably your confidence in being a good employer? People don't decide to trash talk their previous employers at random, right? Surely there is some cause-and-effect involved.
> what would stop them from trashing me as a new employer
Wouldn't it be a good incentive as an employer to not do things that would get you trashed by your employees ?
Sure some people could be revengeful for all the wrong reasons, but I don't think they're many, nor that they usually have a huge platform to throw trash, and these thing would also be denied on the spot by other people in the know.
What would stop them from trashing me as a new employer?
Not giving people loads and loads of things to feel bitter about. And an eggshell-strewn environment where it's basically impossible to air these concerns with anyone upstream.
I'm sorry what ?
You should really be free to speak your mind about your employer (or really anything else) at any time.
It turns out, employers don't like that and add close in contracts to silence their employees.
This happens in every field, even in "tech", even though organised labor could absolutely leverage the insane demand for qualified worker to get a better deal, but I guess that's being a largely depoliticized and generally ignorant workforce for you : you get less.
Anyway you are released from any and all restrictions on your free speech the micro-second your contract doesn't specify it anymore.
If your previous employer sucked, feel free to say it if you want to.
The gag order you sign in your contract regarding bad mouthing your employer has nothing to do with professionalism, and everything to do with a power equilibrium between employers and employees.
It's not terrible, but it's not a great look to me. I don't think you need to hold to your previous employer's interests, though.
The problem to me here is, OP dumps on the work of their former colleges and the criticisms of MySQL aren't backed up and seem a little naive.
E.g., only very useful software survives a long time with many users, and such software also very typically has major warts, especially looking from the inside.
Reading between the lines and subtracting OPs tone, MySQL actually looks like it's in better shape than I would have thought: when OP arrived the optimizer was a mess. Now it's in good shape. Better yet, management is fully supportive and investing in major improvements. Awfully good for a long-lived open-source project.
I might be a little skeptical that OP could thrive on Chrome, except that we all mature as our horizons widen.
Why is it seen as "acting in ways actively hostile" to one's previous employer to... simply speak the truth, as one sees it, about the nuts and bolts the work that one actually did there -- and the quality of the products that emerged as a result?
I find this sort of behavior to be slightly unprofessional.
I find it highly professional, in the sense that he was being 100 percent honest -- and true to his craft. And not in the least vindictive or spiteful in regard to his previous employer.
Because he is stirring things up over there right after he walked away so it won’t be affecting him. The post is a big warning sign to anyone considering working with him.
Well, stirring them up while you work there would be grounds for being fired. When do you think people can talk about it? If you shouldn't speak ill of your employer while employed and you also shouldn't speak ill of your employer after you're no longer employed by them, does that mean being hired means you should never speak ill of that company again?
They made it very clear that while they've held these opinions for a while, they've avoided situations where they would be presented with either lying about their opinions or bad-mouthing the company they work for whether out of respect or fear. I think that's as professional as you can expect people to be. If, as a company, you expect people to not speak about their subjective opinions after they are no longer getting paid as an employee, you need to be willing to offer them something for that, because what you're really asking for is an NDA.
People can talk about it whenever they want, I'm only speaking in support of the very narrow point that it is unprofessional. People reading the post will use its contents to form (or modify) their opinions of the author, and I believe it will generally be in the negative direction. Publishing something that has a net-negative impact on your professional reputation strikes me as unprofessional in a very basic way.
Can he do it? Sure. Should he? Maybe, depends on his values. Hopefully he understood how the message would be received and is OK with the possible consequences, and valued self-expression and making an authoritative critique of MySQL more highly than the negative impacts of rubbing a few readers the wrong way as they perceive a breach of generally accepted professional decorum.
It's definitely unprofessional to talk about it while working there. If it's also unprofessional to talk about it after no longer working there, that means it's unprofessional to ever voice your own opinion of your own work experience at a company, and that's ludicrous.
I'm responsible for vetting possible hires to work under me. What this person did falls well within what I would accept as responsible behavior for someone I was considering hiring. The fact that they note they went out of their way to avoid conferences where they would likely be forced to compromise their morals in some way, either through going against the wished of their employer or being untruthful, speaks very well of their character, if it's to be believed as presented. People that have no problem lying for the company, or badmouthing the company to external people while they work there, are both types of people I would desperately try to avoid.
I think there's "professionalism" as in "behavior that signals to employers that you're safe to hire because you are a good little drone" and then there's "professionalism" as in "does good work and treats people right".
I don't think there's a reason to push the former, as it's got plenty of natural support from the unequal relationship between employers and employees. We may not be able to throw off the shackles entirely, but let's not shame those who rattle them a bit, you know?
People can talk about it whenever they want, I'm only speaking in support of the very narrow point that it is unprofessional.
Stop mincing words, please.
If it's deemed "unprofessional" to talk about it, then to all intents and purposes -- "if he knows what's good for him" as the saying goes -- he can't.
Regardless of the technical facts, unless there is a very strong ethical argument in favor (for example, say, the employer is outright lying in a highly fraudulent way and customers need to know) .... I find this sort of behavior to be slightly unprofessional. But I am curious if others feel the same ... and does it make a difference that it is Oracle?