First, you don't know if they were married, of what their vows were.

Second, you have no idea what they've gone through, no understanding of their pain. If you have nothing constructive to say, no empathy, just shut up.

I don’t think everyone sees marriage the same way.

Vows are not morally or legally binding. It’s good if people want to take them seriously but people leave each other for lesser things than decades long depression.

Vows are absolutely morally binding. That's why they are taken. But they are taken together, mutually.

Not everyone does English, christian vows. Most people in the world don't.

I wasn't at his wedding but presumably the vow leaned more towards the first.

Are you saying that people should never get divorced, because the sacred vow should rule supreme, end of story?

I left a link in my parent comment that should shed light on my thoughts on marriage and commitment.

But, to answer your question, I do think there are times when divorce is wise. I just think those cases are exponentially less common than the rate at which people get divorced today.

Today, or since 1970ish? https://www.bgsu.edu/content/dam/BGSU/college-of-arts-and-sc...

I read your other comment. It was full of fluff and completely tone-deaf and inapplicable to anyone who has actually been through such a situation.

I'd go so far as to point it out as an example of why nobody listens to philosophers any more.

My wife was married before me, it was terrible, and eventually divorced him. She would still consider my comment very applicable to someone in this kind of situation.

The comment netted 60 upvotes...so I'm not the only one that thinks this way.

It's not tone deaf, it's not discounting the pain and frustration that marriage can bring. It is challenging the pervasive self focus of our culture, over emphasis on personal happiness, and the refining benefit that persevering through suffering can bring.

That hits the wrong chord for some people. So be it.

> My wife was married before me, it was terrible, and eventually divorced him.

And yet you dismissed my original comment with a cheap shot about my friend not honoring his wedding vow and just chasing a selfish happiness. You might consider that there are many other people who find themselves in terrible marriages, as your wife did.

Sorry you felt like I dismissed your original comment with a cheap shot. The brevity was intended to highlight the divergence between what is vowed and what really governs. Provocative, yes. But it wasn't intended to be cheap or dismissive.

I'm aware of the potential apparent dissonance with my comments and my wife's divorce. But, I mentioned it deliberately. I do think divorce may sometimes be a wise answer. But, IMO, a big component of that evaluation should be what vows were actually made.

You have more optimism about the general moral character of our culture. But that's likely a worldview difference and not worth delving into at this point.

I will say that my insistence on moral virtue and commitment in marriage (or commitment in general even) is intended to be diagnostic in nature, not destructive. After all, it wasn't that many years ago that most in Western culture would have shared my views on marriage and vows. I don't believe that shift in culture is healthy and I point it out in the hope that if we ask the right questions, maybe we'll start getting the right answers.

FWIW, that comment doesn't really resemble the formal field of Philosophy.

Pretty sure 'put up with spousal abuse and neglect' isn't in the vows but that sure doesn't seem to stop a number of people from inflicting it on their partners, ad infinitum.

Both people take the vows. It isn't one person promising to suffer the other no matter what he/she does.