> Or say chicken nuggets - the plant based alternative - pretty amazing and in blind tests most people couldn't tell.
Because chicken nuggets are shit food and they don't even taste like chicken anyway. That's because they're made with pink slurry, bits of chicken mechanically separated from bones and chemically treated until they're transformed into a vile, noxious paste, the lowest-grade meat that is allowed for human consumption. That's why they're so cheap.
That's what your vegan nuggets replace. And they do a great job at it! Because they're equally shit.
Fake food replacing fake food for people who don't know what real food tastes like anymore. That is the dystopian reality we live in, but for vegans it's paradise.
> And what is vegan propaganda?
Oh, well, for example lying about the role of meat production in environmental destruction and trying to get people to believe it's farming that's destroying the environment rather than buring fossil fuels. That's propaganda, and it's dangerous propaganda from people who care not a shit about the environment and only care about meat meat meat.
> Oh, well, for example lying about the role of meat production in environmental destruction
Again, are you saying that Oxford Uni, IPCC, UN and many other credible organizations are lying?
> transformed into a vile, noxious paste, the lowest-grade meat that is allowed for human consumption.
Have you ever watched how actual chicken nuggets are produced? Have you ever watched what goes on in the meat & dairy industry? You can find out more here: http://www.nationearth.com/
> Again, are you saying that Oxford Uni, IPCC, UN and many other credible organizations are lying?
No, I'm saying they're not saying what you're saying they're saying.
> Have you ever watched how actual chicken nuggets are produced?
Yep. That's what I linked you to, above. How chicken nuggets are made. Read my earlier comment again:
> That's what your vegan nuggets replace. And they do a great job at it! Because they're equally shit.
Get it?
Oh, wait, you think because I don't want to eat your fake nuggets, that can only mean I want to eat the chicken ones? Black and white thinking, typical of fanatics with little understanding of the world beyond their gurus' teachings.
> No, I'm saying they're not saying what you're saying they're saying.
So the latest report from UN's IPCC says this:
“In addition to climate mitigation gains, a transition towards more plant-based consumption and reduced consumption of animal-based foods, particularly from ruminant animals, could reduce pressure on forests and land used for feed, support the preservation of biodiversity and planetary health, and contribute to preventing forms of malnutrition (i.e. undernutrition, micronutrient deficiency, and obesity) in developing countries. Other co-benefits include lowering the risk of cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, and reducing mortality from diet-related non-communicable diseases.”
“Imbalanced diets, such as diets low in fruits and vegetables, and high in red and processed meat, are responsible for the greatest health burden globally and in most regions. At the same time the food system is also responsible for more than a quarter of all greenhouse gas emissions, and therefore a major driver of climate change.”
So the message is clear - shifting to a more plant-base diet is the single biggest way an individual can do to reduce their environmental impact.
> Yep. That's what I linked you to, above. How chicken nuggets are made.
I misunderstood. I thought you meant plant based chicken nuggets, which they weren't, hence why it was confusing.
I'm talking about Quorn nuggets (Mycoprotein) - look at how they are produced compared to how nuggets made from animal flesh are made. Looks way cleaner and not as disgusting.
And they are also healthier:
"Clinical trials on Quorn show that it can improve satiety and help people control cholesterol, blood sugar, and insulin levels."
So the point is - these products will help people who like chicken nuggets or burgers - transition to a more plant-based diet. Nobody is telling you to eat them.
You clearly think animals are just like potatoes and can be treated accordingly - like an object. Whether they have to endure pain or suffering doesn't matter to you - as long as you get your cheese and meat.
> Oh, wait, you think because I don't want to eat your fake nuggets, that can only mean I want to eat the chicken ones?
Who said anything about you having to eat plant based nuggets? This whole discussion wasn't about what you - cheese_goddess - personally eat. It was about how to feed the world sustainably and without effing up our biosphere. Our current system is not sustainable, because of animal factory farming. Getting protein from animals at this scale is illogical. And on top of that - it's cruel.
> Black and white thinking, typical of fanatics with little understanding of the world beyond their gurus' teachings.
What guru? And what teachings are you talking about?
I follow 2 principles:
1) Evidence based - I rely on our scientific community. The conclusion from those credible sources, i.e. IPCC, UN, PCRM, Oxford Uni, and many others, clearly state a move towards a plant-based diet is required to help avert a climate crisis and environmental damage.
2) Observational data... i.e. I've been to farms and more importantly watched enough videos of factory farms and slaughterhouses. It's cruel and you can see the pain & fear in the animals eyes. Do you really think killing a baby sheep just because we want to taste its soft and juicy flesh when it's not necessary for our survival is morally justified? Is it morally justified to kill another sentient being for taste pleasure?
Also, let's look up the definition of fanatic - according to a dictionary it means "a person exhibiting excessive enthusiasm and intense uncritical devotion".
The way you argued and the way you continue to ignore scientific evidence points to an 'intense uncritical devotion' and you choosing your current username - cheese_goddess - seems to suggest you match this line 'exhibiting excessive enthusiasm'.
Again - I encourage you to switch off your bias towards the false image you have of veganism (= reduced or no cruelty) and look at the scientific evidence instead.
> So the message is clear - shifting to a more plant-base diet is the single
biggest way an individual can do to reduce their environmental impact.
A "more plant-based diet" is not a vegan diet and no environmental organisation is saying that everyone should go vegan to save the planet. But we've been through all this already.
> So the point is - these products will help people who like chicken nuggets or
burgers - transition to a more plant-based diet.
And keep them for ever in the thrall of a food industry that wants to sell them shit and that doesn't give a flying fig about the environment, about animal rights, or about peoples' health or culture.
The food industry is responsible for the destruction of the environment and the torture of animals that you pretend to care so much about. It is responsible for the destruction of food cultures and for the destruction of farmers' livelihoods and way of life. And yet, you are very happy to cheer this same food industry on when it produces more industrial shit just because they don't have meat in them? Why?
Because you don't really care about the environment, about animal suffering, or about peoples' lives. That's why. You only care about one singular subject: meat. Meat meat meat meat meat. That's all you can think about.
> The way you argued and the way you continue to ignore scientific evidence points
to an 'intense uncritical devotion' and you choosing your current username - cheese_goddess - seems to suggest you match this line 'exhibiting excessive enthusiasm'.
Pfffhahaha. That's just a laughable attempt to try and turn the tables on me. It doesn't work because I don't have any ideology, I'm not the one trying to tell people what to do, or not do, and I'm not the one trying to guilt trip people into accepting my ideology. And I'm not the one who is trying to twist science and activism to my own ends.
But you are. Because you're a fanatic, a zealot, a follower, a cult member. You don't like it? Get used to it.
> no environmental organisation is saying that everyone should go vegan to save the planet.
Where did I say that? I would suggest you read more carefully and not just place words in other people's mouths.
I said a 'more plant-based diet', which means a reduction in meat consumption. And guess what - if more people would choose to follow this advice given by those organizations listed previously - it would mean fewer animals would have to be killed, which in turn means less cruelty towards animals overall and environmental destruction, i.e. a more vegan planet.
And read the official definition of veganism I posted earlier. It's not dogmatic, but rather promotes pragmatism. It says to avoid exploiting animals when practically possible, which means that it's unavoidable to eat meat when you need it to survive and there are no other foods available.
> The food industry is responsible for the destruction of the environment
Yes agreed. Our food system is not sustainable - that's why it needs to change.
> Because you don't really care about the environment, about animal suffering, or about peoples' lives.
If I don't care about animal suffering or the environment, why have I given up supporting the meat & dairy industry and stopped consuming their products? Doesn't make sense, does it?
> Pfffhahaha. That's just a laughable attempt to try and turn the tables on me.
How am I turning the tables? You called me a fanatic and being part of a cult. I merely explained, based on the official definition of fanatic - your behavior and comments show traits of being a fanatic, someone who isn't able to shift their opinion, even if there is ample evidence to show their opinion is flawed. Your opinion seems to be a) meat industry doesn't destroy the environment, b) animals don't suffer or feel pain.
> It doesn't work because I don't have any ideology
Definition of Ideology: "a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group, or culture"
Based on your comments, your ideology seems to be that animals are here to serve us, it's OK to exploit and kill them regardless of consequences. It's OK for them to suffer so we can have our cheese & meat. Tradition trumps logic and critical thinking. Many people have that view about animals - so wouldn't you say you're part of that group - sharing the same content of thinking?
> You only care about one singular subject: meat. Meat meat meat meat meat.
What do you mean? I don't follow. I mentioned several subjects. So for your benefit, let me list them again:
- Protecting the Environment
- Animal rights - not taking their life against their will
- Not supporting an industry that makes factory farm workers suffer from PTSD
> But you are. Because you're a fanatic, a zealot, a follower, a cult member. You don't like it? Get used to it.
So a 'follower' of scientific evidence means I'm part of a cult and I'm a fanatic?
A fanatic usually doesn't change their opinion when presented with evidence. Show me the evidence that:
A) animal factory farming doesn't create environmental damage
B) animals are like plants - i.e. animals don't suffer and that's why it's OK to kill and exploit them.
I used to eat meat when I was a teenager - but then changed my opinion when I saw what damage my eating habits caused.
Sorry to say this, but the term fanatic applies more to your current behavior - as you ignore the evidence.
You know, I didn't realise you 're the same looney tune character I've been interacting with upthread, but in retrospect, given the torrent of words and the snotty style, I should have figured it out earlier. My bad.
Because chicken nuggets are shit food and they don't even taste like chicken anyway. That's because they're made with pink slurry, bits of chicken mechanically separated from bones and chemically treated until they're transformed into a vile, noxious paste, the lowest-grade meat that is allowed for human consumption. That's why they're so cheap.
Here, this is how chicken nuggets are made:
https://youtu.be/kS3kmulj20M?t=621
And here's a little close up:
https://youtu.be/kS3kmulj20M?t=654
Aaw. Isn't food science amazing these days?
That's what your vegan nuggets replace. And they do a great job at it! Because they're equally shit.
Fake food replacing fake food for people who don't know what real food tastes like anymore. That is the dystopian reality we live in, but for vegans it's paradise.
> And what is vegan propaganda?
Oh, well, for example lying about the role of meat production in environmental destruction and trying to get people to believe it's farming that's destroying the environment rather than buring fossil fuels. That's propaganda, and it's dangerous propaganda from people who care not a shit about the environment and only care about meat meat meat.