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Time to end on a high? Shall we just abandon this whole monarchy thing and time to flip over to a republic and leave the much revered queen as the last ever monarch of the UK?

Seems like Scotland is going to go independent, and if Scotland do Wales will only be a matter of time so may as well just can it now?




Not sure where you're getting the idea Scotland is likely to go independent, the 'no' vote has been consistently 5% higher than 'yes' for a long time, except for during Partygate. Add in the fact that the Tories will likely not be in government, an aggressive Russia (SNP policy is to get rid of their nukes) and it's probably unlikely. Welsh independence is polling at 25%


Having the United Kingdom is orthogonal to them being monarchies. Australia and Canada are independent, but also monarchies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Australia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada), so, presumably, Scotland and Wales could choose to do the same.


Yes! Let's push this as hard as possible. Monarchies are an affront to all Enlightenment ideals and belong in the history books.


Enlightenment ideals are an affront to all that is good in humanity and the victims of Robespierre and the industrial revolution know it better than anyone. Let us push to the opposite side and make away with enlightenment and its destructive path. In a couple centuries enlightenment has put us closer to death than any and all kings.


Do you happen to own a cabin in the woods, perchance?


As much as I love Enlightenment principles, I've learned with age that Reason is not enough for human society to flourish. People need something that goes beyond reason, or even explicitly against reason, to find meaning in their own existence.

A constitutional monarchy is an unreasonable construct, but its perseverance is a symbol of continuity and certainty in an existence that is so often chaotic and uncertain. It provides reassurance to many, and mutes the worst excesses of political turmoil. As long as it really stays out of the fray (and that's sadly not always been the case, with Elizabeth II, and it's likely her son will be even worse), then I don't have a problem with it. Like religion, I don't need it, you don't need it, but many do - and they might as well have it.


Are they?

Elizabeth nor Charles are claiming devine right. They are a unfiying vestige of times past, providing as she did a human constant, an embodiment of the Commonwealth.

So long as their heredity isn't overtly providing them the ability or write or enforce law, it does not seem an affront to democracy.


The royal prerogative includes the powers to appoint and dismiss ministers, regulate the civil service, issue passports, declare war, make peace, direct the actions of the military, and negotiate and ratify treaties, alliances, and international agreements.

While Elizabeth has CHOSEN to not use these powers much, any future monarch can. Just look at the U.S. in the last 6 years to see what happens when a country relies more on historical norms rather than law.


Not just Elizabeth but any other British Monarch in the last 300 years. The UK has one of the oldest and strongest democracies around.


> The royal prerogative includes the powers to ...

Not really. In practice these powers belong to parliament and the monarch performs a merely ceremonial role; actions are performed in his or her name but not at her behest. In the English constitution parliament is sovereign and the monarch acts on its instructions.


Really, that's not true and hasn't been since 1688.

She held the power of royal prerogative but couldn't ever exercise it because Parliament retains the right to dismiss and choose a new monarch anytime they like.

The issue of royal prerogative was settled in the Glorious Revolution when Parliament decided it didn't like the King, James II and just selected a new one.

Every year we remind the monarch at the State Opening of Parliament that they can't ever use their royal prerogative.

The monarch might have influence but ultimate power rests with Parliament.


Except they lobby for tax cuts and exemptions so it doesn't touch their wealth, whilst getting money from the taxpayer also.


Don't they let the government use their property for free? It seems like a mutual type of situation. Unless you are advocating for seizing land?


She has had weekly un-recorded meetings with the head of government for seven decades. I don't know the degree to which these influence policy or not, but if that isn't an affront to democracy I don't know what is.


Agreed


Recent polls show support for Scottish independence dropping. Charles becoming king may affect that of course, but I wouldn't say it's at all clear that "Scotland is going to go independent".

I agree on the idea of dropping the monarchy on a high though, as long as we go for a presidential system similar to Ireland rather than the USA...


A President which is more or less an elected Queen of England is all I ask at this point.


Which is pretty much what happens in Ireland: https://s3.scoopwhoop.com/anj2/5e65e3cf2f1b745e07bed5fa/ceaf...


There's always room for Miggledy!


Germany and Italy too


Why do you need a president?


Because it's a good idea to separate the role of head of state from that of head of government as a bulwark against governments taking unconstitutional actions. It also gives you an apolitical chief diplomat and a respected voice outside of party politics that helps moderate discourse and to counterbalance executive power.


The president is someone who can sit above day-to-day politics, and can be very useful in a time of crisis - for example, I'm pretty sure Italian political history would be even more tumultuous without having had a president to bridge the gaps between administrations.


Shall we just abandon this whole monarchy thing and time to flip over to a republic and leave the much revered queen as the last ever monarch of the UK?

I'd vote no, because then we'd end up with people like Boris Johnson or Liz Truss as our head of state(!!) The monarch nowadays is important for what they prevent. The Queen stood in the way of someone like Boris getting access to all the 'bling' of state. A big shift would need to occur before we could become a sensible republic, particularly in dismantling a lot of the ceremonial aspects of British life. Perhaps even a collective head of state like the Swiss could work.


I believe that Charles is now officially already king.


The phrase the King is dead long live the King exists to make sense of the whole concept.

A throne is never empty. The second Elizabeth died, Charles became king.


This threw me back to studying Ionesco at school - "Le roi se meurt! Vive le roi!"


But coronation will not occur for about a year.


Coronation is just a ceremony.


Yes I think this is the case. The death announcement from Buckingham Palace refers to him as such.

"The Queen died peacefully at Balmoral this afternoon.

The King and The Queen Consort will remain at Balmoral this evening and will return to London tomorrow."


With the queen gone the questions around royal consent and Prince Andrew and Charles nuttier opinions will be much harder to answer.


As an American, I kind of envy the fact that there's a referee who can step in when needed. She stepped into Australia's government shut down and fired the whole government in the 1970s during a government shutdown.

It works because she receives extensive training to be apolitical. (And if she is political, there are repercussions.)


There isn’t. If the Queen ever steps in, it’s immediately a constitutional crisis that threatens the entire legitimacy of our democracy. Her role has been purely ceremonial for the longest time.

At least this is true for Canada. I have to imagine it’s very similar for the rest of the Commonwealth. Every instance of involvement that wasn’t ceremonial has been doing precisely what the Prime Minister has requested of her via the Governor General, such as dissolving parliament. Which I guess makes that ceremonial too.


I think that when people see the world 'monarchy' they still have the vision and ideas of monarchies from medival ages. Modern european monarchies that are still around are nothing but and, to be honest, I have no idea what would have changed really if they were no longer here


I know none of us knew her personally but this doesn’t seem like a sentiment shared by most, and it is definitely not something to bring up when she isn’t even in the ground yet.


I think it's overdue. IMO Brexit would not have happened if GB wouldn't be a monarchy.


Definitely agree


[flagged]


Please don't cross into personal attack.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


which part of that is a personal attack?


The phrase "you people" is a putdown and the entire comment was aggressive and rude. Please don't post like that to HN. If you review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, you'll see how much it goes against the intended spirit of the site.

I've been banning every account in this thread that is breaking the site guidelines and also has a recent history of breaking the site guidelines. Fortunately your account doesn't pass the second test! but if you wouldn't mind reviewing the rules and sticking to them, we'd be grateful.


Why should we?

It's a perfect moment to think about this.


she's dead, it's not going to offend her anymore


Her family is in mourning tho




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