There's a bit of irony in the tone of this comment since it shows no capacity for empathy for those who commit crimes, most significantly in the sense that you clearly believe that prison is for others who are not you.
I've been the victim of a range of crimes over my life including assault and robbery.
I particularly remember the one case where I was robbed from a studio apartment while I was sleeping. I was, obviously, quite rattled. I remember looking for other stories of this happening to people and was surprised how many people viewed being robbed as an assault on their dignity and expressed incredible desire for revenge. I just couldn't muster these same feelings.
While my day was ruined by the evening I could already feel my life coming back together: the lock had been changed, I cancelled all my credit cards, has a replacement license on it's way to me, and all in all was just out about $20 that had been in my wallet.
I had a realization then that while my life was already coming back together the life of the person who robbed me was perpetually in the state of chaos that I had felt that morning. I high risk, low reward robbery like that is typically for drug money, and undoubtedly whatever fix that robber had gotten for my $20 was long faded and they were back putting themselves at risk.
The key insight that hit me was that that momentary break in my sense of security that morning, that's what the person who robbed me constantly lives in. That person goes to bed with the same sense of insecurity I woke up in. But my security is only disrupted on these rare occasions where our lives our inverted, but my default is comfort and theirs is perpetually in that state baring that brief moment where they have enough money for that next fix.
I earnestly felt no need for any vengeance as any desire for vengeance was already dealt out by reality. What more punishment could I wish on someone than for them to wake up every morning feeling the same as I did for just that one.
This is silly. I was robbed in the Tenderloin in December and had to spend days in the ICU. The cops won’t do anything. I have permanent brain damage and have lost all progress I made working on my C-PTSD from childhood sexual abuse.
The guys who attacked me don’t live a life of chaos. It’s a job for them and the market is the most lucrative it has ever been.
I was told there was no appetite to prosecute a robbery on a white male. They said the guys would be right back on the street within hours if they tried to pick them up.
Well it’s possible for all these things to be true at the same time. I was mugged years ago by a group of high school kids - when the cops were able to track them down, they were all living in a shelter for kids in the foster system who had been unable to find a foster family, typically because of unmanageable behavior. They had often been the victims of sexual or physical abuse, and had lived on the streets.
It’s difficult to hear about that and not have some pity for those kids- yeah they got my phone, but I got to go home to my wife and kid and a high paying tech job.
At the same time, I have a distant relative who will spend the rest of his life in jail for committing a serial string of crimes without apparent remorse over many years. Family members who know him describe him as “scary” and a “psychopath” - but he was also kidnapped and abused as a child. Are those things unrelated? Are some people just evil?
I lived on Chicago’s south and west sides for years. Volunteered with youth at the Boys and Girls Club for much of that time - and did everything I could to raise money for that organization and more.
I can have sympathy for the boys who are drafted into drug work, age 11, and I can personally want the legal systems’ incentives to change while ALSO understanding that some people will choose to be rotten nearly every time. I’m not making an argument for the “carceral state” or one in support of the US’ present prison system. Just making clear my observation that far from everyone is a “victim” of the system and acting like they are hurts the real victims on both sides.
We should take steps to prevent it, and the discussions are useful, but once someone is provably willing and capable of committing violent offenses, they have forfeited most forms of sympathy.
I suspect that almost all antisocial behavior, along with mental health and drug addiction issues, are in some way related to childhood trauma. Many people are able to heal enough that they don’t go down the really bad roads, but many more are not.
As a society we give parents wide latitude in how they raise their kids. And I suspect most people don’t even realize how their parenting decisions might affect their kids down the line.
I think that view has the risk of being damaging. In particular parents or partners are often misattributed as the “cause”.
1: It leads to victimisation, where people blame their environment rather than fix themselves. We all can find traumatic childhood incidents if we look for them (“repressed” memories can fill in if you didn’t actually have anything obviously traumatic happen).
2: If you suspect trauma and then wonder “what did the parents do”, that is rather unpleasant for the majority of loving parents that didn’t abuse their children whatsoever. All parents make honest mistakes, and any good parent has plenty of unexpunged guilt, usually for no good reason. Also we can be traumatised for entirely mundane events in our lives - where nobody is actually to blame for evil, yet we often look for blame in others.
3: we can’t change our past, so acceptance of what happened is important. Whether we see ourselves as helpless victims or capable actors is critical I think. Creatinig a narrative of victims is unhealthy, in my experience. One of the worst abuses I have seen, was professionals getting a bunch of troubled teenagers together, letting them talk about their extreme trauma together, and then sending them home. Normalising abuse, and it was extremely damaging to the sensitive, empathetic teens in the group (who had their own problems to deal with, and didn’t need to be loaded with other vile shit to process).
4: There are great parents that end up with fucked-up kids, for reasons beyond their control.
I am concentrating on parents here, because although the people I know with your attitude might say they think about the wider picture, often the first thought I see from them is assuming the parents caused the problem - judgy people are very damaging IMHO. I am definitely not accusing you - but I am accusing others I see with a similar attitude. Disclaimer: not a parent, just old enough to have had the opportunity to learn a little from the hurt people in my life, and trying to be wise enough to know how innocently we can all make mistakes.
Probably it is part genetic and part environmental, just like most other human traits.
By the way, the fact that many criminals were abused in childhood has many possible explanations, and it is not obvious which one of them is correct. For example:
* Maybe child abuse causes people to become criminals.
* Maybe there is much more child abuse than we imagine, so a majority of criminals was abused, but also a majority of non-criminals was abused.
* Psychopathy is heritable, which means that most psychopaths also had a psychopath parent, and that is why they were abused.
It’s great for you that you can move on so quickly, but I think it’s a mistake to assume others can or should. Your experience is not the same as others, and your situation isn’t either.
In my case, I have pets and a young child living with me. The dogs may get over the violated sense of safety quite easily, but my little girl likely wouldn’t. It’s imperative to her healthy development that I be able to provide her a safe, secure place to live that also feels safe and secure.
Call me selfish but that overrides my concerns for the chaotic state of other peoples’ lives: their problems do not entitle them to harm my family.
On the contrary, I wish my criminal aggressors had precisely the amount of empathy I have for them. Such crimes would not have occurred were that the case, nor would they even be possible (as I would never violate another fellow human being in such a way).
Furthermore, you may have gotten off with a day of inconvenience, but consider those victims that have permanent scars from their encounters with those lacking empathy. Victims of sexual assault, those suffering permanent injury, and the relatives of prematurely deceased victims will never be the same. These are not hypotheticals (e.g., just the stats on sexual violence against women are appalling). All we can do as a society for such individuals is do our best to prevent some percentage of future similar acts. A better path for reformation may be part of that, but I'm not sure squeezing victims for more empathy gets us very far.
Some people prefer to put themselves at risk robbing someone for $100 instead to work hard for $100. I think the emphaty should be on people working hard for little money not really on risk takers that risk not only their life but their victim's life as well.
A simple robbery can quickly end-up more tragic. I would like that person to be put in jail until it develops the skills and behaviour fit for society. The time based sentence is wrong. There is no point to let someone free if that person gets even worse in prison. The sentence should include time based punishment and mandatory rehabilitation. What's the point of catching criminals if rehabilitation is not achieved? It is just vengence? It's not unusual to hear convicted criminals that two-three-five or more years in jail is worth the risk rather than taking a stupid job.
> It's not unusual to hear convicted criminals that two-three-five or more years in jail is worth the risk rather than taking a stupid job.
Citation please? From my understanding, there are typically a wide swath of reasons people commit crimes, but I have never seen a stat suggesting that jail is preferable to a stupid job.
I didn't say people prefer jail instead of stupid jobs. But the chances of getting away with crime is worth it. That's the reason they commit crime in the first place and it doesnt change after serving time in prison. It's not unusual for convicted criminals to seek new crime jobs as soon as they are out of prison. The fact that they were caught is seen either as a mistake or price of doing business. Many get new crime skills and new connections in prison. A stupid job is not even remotely present in their mind.
Sometimes jail time is even priced in already, usually in financial crimes but that's a different story.
My point is that people should not be left out of prison until they prove themselves worthy to live in a free society.
> key insight that hit me was that that momentary break in my sense of security that morning, that's what the person who robbed me constantly lives in
Maybe for some, but for many it’s a job or hobby. Some actually enjoy it. I grew up in a rough neighborhood and know people bragging about robbing just for the thrill of it.
> high risk, low reward robbery like that is typically for drug money
You found yourself in that state of chaos for reasons entirely outside your control. The robber freely chose to take the first hit of the drug that led to the addiction that led to the life of crime.
This seems extreme to me to be that empathetic when someone has broken into your home while you are inside, even in hindsight with the fact that it was non-violent situation for you. Coming into someone's home when you know they are there is another level of seriousness IMO. It takes a certain amount of confidence to do this - whether the are on drugs or not I don't think has any relevance. If someone were to do this to my home I would be looking at it like it's a me or them type of situation. There is no reason to stay vengeful after the event, but being this empathetic strikes me as overdoing it.
>There's a bit of irony in the tone of this comment since it shows no capacity for empathy for those who commit crimes, most significantly in the sense that you clearly believe that prison is for others who are not you.
If you believe that there are too many people already the death penalty for j-walking isn't a punishment it's a policy to keep the rest of us alive past 2100.
I've been the victim of a range of crimes over my life including assault and robbery.
I particularly remember the one case where I was robbed from a studio apartment while I was sleeping. I was, obviously, quite rattled. I remember looking for other stories of this happening to people and was surprised how many people viewed being robbed as an assault on their dignity and expressed incredible desire for revenge. I just couldn't muster these same feelings.
While my day was ruined by the evening I could already feel my life coming back together: the lock had been changed, I cancelled all my credit cards, has a replacement license on it's way to me, and all in all was just out about $20 that had been in my wallet.
I had a realization then that while my life was already coming back together the life of the person who robbed me was perpetually in the state of chaos that I had felt that morning. I high risk, low reward robbery like that is typically for drug money, and undoubtedly whatever fix that robber had gotten for my $20 was long faded and they were back putting themselves at risk.
The key insight that hit me was that that momentary break in my sense of security that morning, that's what the person who robbed me constantly lives in. That person goes to bed with the same sense of insecurity I woke up in. But my security is only disrupted on these rare occasions where our lives our inverted, but my default is comfort and theirs is perpetually in that state baring that brief moment where they have enough money for that next fix.
I earnestly felt no need for any vengeance as any desire for vengeance was already dealt out by reality. What more punishment could I wish on someone than for them to wake up every morning feeling the same as I did for just that one.