The Deluge is one of the best devices I have ever owned. I used to play with individual software synthesizers for a while and also tried to connect them to DAWs but it never clicked. Playing with a synth was always really fun but not so putting it all together.
The Deluge freed me from my desktop, from endless screen time and it allows me to create. It may not be perfect and it may not be perfectly DAWless solution for many because of some missing features like mastering and compression. But for me as a hobby where I just waste time on making crappy electronic music of which 95% will never reach the ears of anyone else (besides my poor wife) it is perfect.
Of course it can also be used by more serious musicians. But for my it enables a unique way of playing with music which I have never experienced anywhere else. And it finally is a DAW which I can (almost) 100% understand.
This is something I've found to generally be the case, hardware synths just generally have nicer workflows than DAWs. The common response you hear to pro-hardware is that a DAW can do so much more, to which I always think that may be true, but it doesn't matter how much the software can do, it matters how much you can do with the software. The closest I've come to a hardware like DAW is Renoise or Drambo (for iOS devices), but even they're missing something for me.
I've never tried the Deluge myself, but I would really like to.
Nothing killed my creative instinct quicker than having to mess with a PC based DAW and sequencer, and all of the attendant software complexity. Even worse, it’s online so distractions are just a click away.
I use the Deluge to learn music theory, synthesis and a bit of composition and it's so much more fun making music in the garden than to spend another hour sitting in front of the computer.
Synthstrom Audio seems committed to support this device for years to come: they sell spare parts, organize upgrades to newer hardware versions (some more cosmetic, recently though a screen replacement from 7 segment LED to OLED display), offer "refreshment" (new silicon pads, potentiometer and encoders).
Things I hope can be implemented:
* Smooth scrolling: currently Deluge only scrolls in increments of a whole "screen", e.g. 16 steps with a step being anything from a few bars down to something like 256ths of a whole note. This makes it hard to follow and awkward to edit pieces that are not in 4/4 time signature.
* "Accidentals" in scale mode: currently every row displays notes of the same pitch. Deluge allows arbitrary subsets of the chromatic scale (as long as it's at least 7 notes) to form a scale, and in "scale mode" rows for notes not in that set remain hidden. To "escape" the scale one has to switch to "chromatic mode" (a row for every note on the chromatic scale) or to create a new scale by adding notes to rows not in the current scale in chromatic mode. With only 8 rows that means that not even a single octave fits on the screen any more. I hope that something like accidentals can be implemented where the sharpened/flattened notes would simply show up in a different color on the row of the scale note, akin to the use of accidentals on staff notation.
* Support for microtonal scales
* A master compressor
All in all the Deluge is a wonderful piece of gear and I wish Synthstrom Audio well. I really hope going Open Source will benefit their business as much as customers are going to benefit from this.
Are you aware of any hw sequencers that already have microtonal scale support? It's something I'm keenly interested in, and one of my synths (Korg Monologue) has built in support, but the others don't, would be nice to be able to drive them all in the same tuning externally.
I'm not aware of any HW sequencers supporting microtonal scales. If you're talking about MIDI sequencing I don't think that's baked into the standard: As far as I know, MIDI doesn't have a concept of scales or tuning. Notes are sent as values ranging from 0 to 127 and it's up to the receiver to interpret that - usually by assigning equal temprament notes to these numbers (this is, I assume, how the Korg *logue synthesizers implement their scales - by interpreting the note values differently)
Things may improve if MIDI 2 ever becomes widespread. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
When sequencing monophonic sequences, one might be able to work around this by adding a MIDI processor into the signal path that prepends certain pitch bend messages to certain note values - but I can't say for certain how well this work, I never tried it.
Here's a link with some ideas (and scripts) to implement microtonal synth voices with today's firmware version of the deluge:
Thanks for your insight and the link! I know very little about the hardware side of things but am pretty familiar with microtonality in DAWs and soft synths.
You're correct, MIDI is very primitive in its support of microtonality, and afaik MIDI 2.0 improves it only a little: the general solution in OG MIDI is to have it send pitch wheel messages along with the note to bend it to the correct pitch, but it's limited in precision, and prevents you from using the pitch wheel for other purposes. You can do it polyphonically, but only by assigning each note in the chord its own MIDI channel, which limits it to 16 simultaneous notes.
MIDI 2.0 doesn't directly support remapping to different EDOs or tunings or anything like that, so microtonal support is still a kind of hack, but it does at least have a dedicated pitch adjustment parameter now in the note on message, with a higher precision, which is separate to the pitch wheel message - so you can use both. Still clunky but it's better.
There's also various standards for OG MIDI like MTS (MIDI Tuning Standard) or MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression) but it's very rare for HW synths to support these, and even soft synths that support them are few and far between.
I guess probably the most straightforward way of doing microtonal hardware sequenced synths is by using modular synths, funnily enough - none of these digitally quantised note values there! I just read the Cirklon sequencer, for example, support the MTS standard to store alternate tuning and can then output CV to modulars based off those tunings directly.
I've been moderately successful learning puredata over the last couple of years (e.g. a real fairly successful professional electronic musician (arty side, not commrecial side) has picked up one of my patches to do something with, and we've got a dialog going where I help him out with some conceptual stuff around programming and open source, and he helps me out with practical aspects.
Meanwhile last time I was in NZ a few weeks ago I checked the classifieds - partly to see if there was a used deluge at a good price nearby, but unfortnuately I blew more than double that budget on an amazing soprano sax that happened to be nearby instead :/
Which is a long winded way of saying that I'm looking forward to seeing the deluge's code to see how they're running things inside the box.
Always felt the Deluge is a more 'hacker-type' groovebox, i.e. not as shiny and beginner-friendly as most other products – but with sheer endless capabilities. For examole the number and length of tracks being only limited by RAM and CPU, not some arbitrary low number).
So the firmware going open source feels natural and I'm excited to see what the community can do. I guess it's a very huge and complex C/C++ codebase, so it will probably take some time to get started...
I've got a couple 256-button monomes (no longer in production, basically -- they only make smaller models now) and waited twelve years for something velocity sensitive with as many buttons to come around. Eventually the Lumatone did, and now the monomes sit in a closet -- but I'd really like something with smaller buttons, because I divide the octave into 58 pieces, which means I can barely reach an octave on the Lumatone (whereas I could easily reach across three octaves on the monome).
If you're familiar with hardware design, it wouldn't be terribly hard to make a big grid of pressure-sensitive buttons using force-sensitive resistor material (Sensitronics makes some that they sell approximately by the foot, possibly velostat or a similar material could work too) laid over the top of pairs of interdigitized fingers of copper, connected through a bunch of multiplexers or similar to the ADC inputs on a microcontroller. The buttons can be whatever semi-squishy material you want to lay over the top of the pressure sensors.
(I bring this up because I'm working on a similar project, but not with a regular grid. My keyboard has 113 pressure-sensitive keys. I've been using JLCPCB, who are surprisingly cheap even for large boards and even when buying in quantities of 5 or so.)
I've been looking into this (thanks for the pointer to Sensitronics!), do you have any pointers to a manufacturer of squishy material pads? (silicone I guess)
Sensitronics was recommended to me by Roger Linn one time I met him when he happened to be in town for an event. They apparently make the sensor in the Linnstrument.
What I do is I glue a sheet of 1/8th inch birch ply to a sheet of felt using liquid hide glue, then use a laser cutter to cut that into keys. (They're irregular polygons, but you could do the same easily with squares.) I have another piece of laser cut plywood (or the "negative space" of the same plywood, but with the felt removed) that serves as a frame to hold the keys in place. I use packing tape on the back of the frame, sticky side up, to grab onto the felt so they don't all fall out when you turn it upside-down. The felt gives the keys a satisfying squishy feel. Wood screws hold it all together.
In other words, from top to bottom a key is comprised of 1/8th inch birch ply, a layer of glue, a layer of felt, a layer of tape sticky side up, a layer of FSR film, then ENIG-coated copper traces on an FR4 PCB with the solder mask excluded. I also have another layer of plywood (1/4") on the bottom for structure.
I made an early attempt at using some kind of silicone rubber, but I wasn't successful. It might be doable and I imagine there are companies that can make that stuff for you but in the end I decided I liked wooden keys better and they were just plain easier.
I don't have leds on the keys, but if you want that, WS2812's are surprisingly cheap and could be placed by a pick-and-place machine by the hundreds -- if you can figure out a way to get the light to shine through all the intervening opaque parts.
I considered it! But I'm a piano player, and I like to be free to keep my hands wide apart, which I think requires more tactile feedback than the Linnstrument provides.
Some context that may not be obvious to non-musicians. Most companies in audio don't open source ANYTHING. Likely the primary reason for this is copycats. While Dropbox could open source their entire product and still get by on enterprise sales and entrenchment, musicians are extremely price conscious and have little qualms with flipping gear on a dime. Behringer can (and likely will) release a copy cat of the Deluge for 1/10th the price, and Synthstrom has made the brave decision to do this anyways.
No doubt this gives Synthstrom a huge boost to their (already very strong) reputation. But even more so this gives a huge number of developers an amazing foundation on which to start hacking and creating new devices.
(I own a Deluge and am a massive fan of the company)
As someone who owns a deluge and seems to know about this music community quite well, what do you think the prospects are for this to get a lot of active contributors? Do you see there being a lot of exciting improvements made?
Recently bought mine so very happy to hear this news!
I'm have only a remote armchair-kind interest in this kind of device, but they always seem like a fun platform to develop (I'm an embedded software developer). The product page doesn't seem to say, but I found this [1] page on Reddit where someone claims it is based on the Renesas RZ processor [2].
That seems to mean it's an Arm core (there is one RISC-V core in the RZ lineup) with some serious onboard memory and DSP muscles.
Having had some experience with Renesas though at $PREVIOUS_WORK, I would no longer expect this to be a fun environment. :)
This is genuinely thrilling. I know it’s likely to be a C++ codebase, which I don’t have a huge amount of experience in (yet). But having open source access to a music machine of the Deluge’s calibre is phenomenal.
Deluge is pretty cool, it's like Novation Circuit on steroids. Circuit is a bit better for travel and for people who like solid defaults, Deluge is for tinkerers who grew past Circuit limitations.
What I want to know is what provoked the change of heart. Two years ago, the position was as follows:
"If there comes a time we stop developing the software and feel 'finished', we'll consider it, but we're a long way from that place so it's not worth losing any sleep over thinking about this at the moment. Rohan’s joy is coding. Not gonna take that away from him and let everyone else have all the fun :)
Btw, please don't try debate us on this. We're fans of the open source movement and of course understand the benefits it has, this is a decision we've made."
So, does this mean they consider the Deluge "finished"?
So many devices have unavailable firmware which makes me worry for its longevity. I've given up on a couple of things I'd have otherwise purchased because they believe their firmware is a competitive advantage for some reason (skipped out on the Lumatone because of this).
My question would be if they are going to take the time to write a good reference for the hardware so people can use it to develop new projects or will they just dump their software and call it good? They might be able to get me interested if they put in that time but at $1400 I am not sure it offers me anything over something like Bela [0] but I am the sort that enjoys working on the hardware side more than the software side.
If you read their announcement it looks like they have a solid plan to foster a community. They’ve even started a patreon with all proceeds going to contributors to the project
I did read it and it leaves the question of hardware somewhat up in the air, they seem to be pushing for people forking and modifying their software more than people building new projects from their hardware. They leave open the chance of there being black boxes in there which we don't get full information on and limits use as a platform. They may very well release everything but I am not going to rush out and buy one under the assumption that they are, I will likely consider a purchase after I see what comes.
Super cool. I wish Novation would do this with the Peak and Summit. Their firmware development slowed when Chris Huggett passed, and maybe the community could help out.
I wish all of them would do this. Elektron seems to be adding Rust to their platforms (going by job ads), and most of their new hardware seems ripe for letting people extend them, but same story as for most hardware producers, the firmware is pretty locked down.
Novation flirted with open source with the LaunchPad Pro. Afaik it never really took off - I imagine that’s playing a part in not open sourcing future hardware
nice to see it here. while everyone is pouring out throw away shit, synthstrom is transforming their hardware product by software updates since many years, and they still invest in it, instead of abondoning it and selling "new" versions. Sounds like a hot take, but it puts a lot of other companies to shame. Making their firmware opensource is a smart move.
This thing looks sweet. Wishing they sold it as a kit for a bit less than a grand...anyone know an open hardware project that provides some nice silicone drum pads with some sequencing logic inside?
It doesn't have the pads, but the LMN-3 is an open hardware portable groovebox based on the Teensy 4.1. I try to keep up with DIY synth projects and I haven't seen any which have velocity sensitive drum pads, but maybe I missed one.
I thought about getting a Deluge but went with the Polyend Play instead when I found a good deal on a used one. Not the same thing, but I'm happy with it
I really enjoy synthwave and similar music styles and I'd like to learn how to create music like that. But I have no music theory background and I can't play an instrument. Are there any tutorials/books/courses for complete idiots like me?
Not necessary to play an instrument, you only need to "play" the sequencer although you would certainly need a MIDI controller just to input notes. Playing the piano of course would be helpful but it's not like you are going to play synthwave music with your 10 fingers.
For basic music theory I like Nahre Sol's book "The Elements of Music" which is affordable and basically all you need to jumpstart.
Your next best source are Youtube tutorials where people "reconstruct" the songs you like i.e. you need to begin by mimicking the music you like with the soft synths they use combined with some production/mixing techniques knowledge. Alice Yalcin puts quite a lot of stuff at Youtube. And what's not to love from other channels like Bad Gear, Alex Ball or DrMix! After some months you will become familiar to what the different synths are capable of doing and even recognize the sounds from other people sounds ("that's a Juno!" "that's an Emulator!" "that's a 909!") and you will build your software arsenal around that, maybe even getting some hardware that adapts to your preferred workflow.
Me, I'm a Logic Pro + Korg hardware workstation person but I may or may not spend most of my weekends TV time watching these Youtube channels.
Get some of the cheaper hardware and look up tutorials for the music style you want, no music theory necessary :)
The Novation Circuit is a good beginner device, not too expensive, and have a big community. Bunch of tutorials for all kinds of music styles on YouTube.
Most devices also help you with scales and whatnot, so you don't really need much music theory understanding, although of course it helps a lot. But that's something you can look deeper into if you actually like making music.
Get Ableton or FL Studio or Reaper for DAW, get Dexed as a free VST (or serum, not free), and search YouTube for "how to make synthwave with X" and you'll find a bunch of stuff.
The DAW is software that organizes all your instruments and melodies and so on into a project file and a VST is the instrument itself, more or less. So you work on a song in the DAW using VST instruments.
The Deluge freed me from my desktop, from endless screen time and it allows me to create. It may not be perfect and it may not be perfectly DAWless solution for many because of some missing features like mastering and compression. But for me as a hobby where I just waste time on making crappy electronic music of which 95% will never reach the ears of anyone else (besides my poor wife) it is perfect.
Of course it can also be used by more serious musicians. But for my it enables a unique way of playing with music which I have never experienced anywhere else. And it finally is a DAW which I can (almost) 100% understand.