After only a couple days, it was never more clear that I was never doing anything for the money anyway, and the reason I'm always working, driving, pushing, learning, growing, and building companies is NOT about the future-goal but increasing the quality of my present moment. It's exciting! It's fun!
So, I started working again. Not because I have to, but beacuse I want to. It makes my brain spark in a way that not-working doesn't.
So here I am again, programming, excited about some new thing I'm working on, exactly the same as before I sold the company. I didn't buy anything because there's nothing I want. My debts were already paid off.
$5m invested invested fairly conservatively can throw off 8%, or $400k / year. I'm sorry, but if you can't live on $33k / month, even in the Bay Area, you've got problems.
A couple of those people in the article have homes worth over $1m that they own free and clear while they work 70 hours a week to make ends meet. Not smart. Mortgage the house to 70-80% (rates are dirt cheap right now) and invest the cash at the aforementioned 8%, which adds $100k / year to your bottom line, plus the tax benefits.
Right now you can get 6% in the UK on a no-frills deposit account at Tesco (hmm, thought they were a supermarket) but that'll be taxed so it's more like 4% real. Which is barely keeping pace with (real, not official) inflation.
True, but banks lend to each other at LIBOR which has remained stubbornly high. Only a few weeks ago some were offering 8% 1-year deposit accounts to get any cash they could get their hands on.
Until this latest hiccup, my simple IRA was making 10-11% a year without me even thinking about it. Also with 5 mil, or 22 mil the types of investments available to you are not 'regular' or something you average hacker has access to.
BTW that NYTimes article you cite is boom-town trash. Published in 2007, just before things started going in the shitter. The mentality of the past 5 years was "more, more more" and it's almost sickening to read this account of how greedy these millionaires are/were.
They all chose to live in Silicon Valley and continued to aspire to be hundred-millionares instead of enjoying what they have. Some people don't deserve their wealth.
They all chose to live in Silicon Valley and continued to aspire to be hundred-millionares instead of enjoying what they have. Some people don't deserve their wealth.
So you're saying it's bad if rich people continue to build things instead of switching to being mere consumers?
I completely understand what you're saying, and I hope to always pursue my passions and the things that I care about, but I agree with the sentiment of the person you're responding to. The people in the article do not sound like they're happy and building things because they love to or because they want to make a difference. They all sound stressed and miserable because they're continually comparing their standard of living to the next guy, who is a little bit higher. Perhaps it's just the tone of the article, but they all sounded out of touch and ungrateful.
Although it's a nice success story, you are marginalizing the majority of Americans and, in fact, the majority of people in the tech world, that has to spend a considerable amount of time and effort just to make ends meet. Paying your way through college and dealing with the current lack of jobs means that I can't necessarily just work on what I love and I have to make concessions. It has nothing to do with whether I want to contribute something of worth to society while doing something I love. Its about the hope of being able to do those things without having to wonder whether I'll make it to the end of the month.
How is he "marginalizing" anybody? He built a business doing something that he loved, it succeeded (<-- probably not a coincidence), and now he wants to do it again. Do you think it was handed to him on a stick? I don't. I bet he had to fight like hell.
Unless I'm misreading you, you appear to be saying "that guy had options I don't have". In my opinion, that's the kind of mentality that causes a person to "marginalize" himself.
1. You make your own choices, and there's always tradeoffs. It sounds like you've decided that a busy internship and a high load class schedule are more important to you than working on a startup. Own that decision...you'll own the consequences. If you don't feel it's the right path, change it.
2. Be careful about telling yourself someday...it can easily turn into never. Not saying there's not better times for some things than others, but lean towards taking messy plunges rather than waiting for the stars to align.
I agree. Right out of school I took the plunge and it didn't work out. Now I have a decent job and a comfortable life. I'm happy to do that for a while and then take another plunge when the Next Big Thing comes along. After all, the first one didn't kill me, why would the second?
I know this isn't the sense of "now" the question intended, but what I'd recommend is taking a long vacation, to clear your head. You can't usually do this immediately after selling, because you have to work for the acquirer for a while. But when you finally leave the acquirer the best thing you can do is go somewhere far away for at least a month.
Improve the world: start a charitable foundation; support amazing candidates for public office; invest in social services for developing nations.
Improve yourself: go back to school and get a degree in history, or music, or art; travel to another continent and live somewhere new long enough to learn the language; write a book, and read a lot of other peoples'.
Improve others: get your teaching certificate (usually <1 year of school) and teach math to middle-school students; tutor kids at a local library or after-school program in computers; adopt.
Get a house in the Santa Cruz mountains large enough to hold a decent sized library and a miniature lab/computer history museum, invest the money to get a speedy Internet connection there. For the next few years spend the rest of the time reading, writing code (especially code that can't immediately be "something people want": design and write programming languages and OSes "just for fun") doing photography (build out a proper studio and dark room) and collect historical/esoteric hardware (e.g. PDP-10s, VAXen).
Then in few years, attempt another start-up (but without risking my entire wealth on it - won't put more $100k into it) and if that fails, take a job (without regards to pay or seniority of position) at a research lab / university / technology company I believe in.
I'd go back to school and study bioinformatics. I've seen too many friends and family suffer slow deaths from cancer, Parkinson's, and soforth and I think the solutions to those problems are only a matter of time. To be even a small part of that solution would be the most satisfying thing I can imagine.
Doing the legwork to get back to school and lining your life up with the admissions schedule can take a year or more of planning before it's safe to quit your day job. It helps if other people you know are doing the same thing at the same time. But one thing it doesn't require is getting rich beforehand.
Good question. That made me think a bit. Because I'm not unsatisfied with what I'm doing now and because I'm not confident that I would be effective in that field, at least not for a long time. I took the original question as more of if you weren't doing what you were doing now and you could do anything in the world, what would it be? Also, I agree with etal's comment about the legwork and planning. It takes a lot of effort and frictional costs to get out of one situation and into another. I don't know. It's something to think about.
Honestly, keep it a secret. Live like I've been living and worry much less.
I've found (by other people I know actually getting rich) that there's really nothing you can say or do with your money where you won't come off as a condescending prick to someone who knew you and imagines that they are in some small (or not so small) part responsible for your current success.
Failing the "keep it a secret" part, Warren Buffet's life suggests that just implementing the second part will go a long way in itself.
Grow my hair long (again) and get someone good to make it look stylish and neat. Buy some nice clothes, such that I don't have to worry about not having any sense of clothes.
No office dress code, woohoo.
Do some startup funding on useful wearable keyboards, better software for small helpdesks/teams (I have plenty of ideas), better software/user interfaces for virtual desktops, but with grouped applications by user task.
Inject self replicating nanobots under all of Africa, acting as a synthetic water table, pumping, purifying, filtering seawater from the coast and bringing it inland, then piping it up to the surface.
Secretly hire a contracting company to rip out the traffic lights at a nearby road island and replace them with my new design. Keep stats and, when convincing enough, announce the change to all and pressure to get all traffic lights in the country moved over.
Bring some ultra-fantastic business internet access to this area for a reasonable cost, spam the town with wifi and build a couple of good datacenters around, buy various shop facilities around the town and surreptitiously start selling the right kinds of interesting things, buy a couple of central indoor spaces and run barcamp/unconvention/XYZcons regularly. Try to seed and cultivate a high tech, hacker friendly yet quirky and personal friendly cafe style environment around here. Or maybe in another country with better weather. Or maybe both.
Daydream, in other words, while feeling awkward, guilty and undeserving.
It's true about those who are endlessly fueled by creating something - that doesn't change. You might not do it for money, but I'm not sure that really matters.
I sold my first company in 1997 and am launching my 10th in January. It never gets old.
Finding myself in a similar situation, my answer is... "I don't know, I've spent all my attention getting this done, I'll work on what comes next now."
Most people give me the eye like "Ah ha! He has some plan that he isn't ready to divulge.", but really. I don't know. I'm working on it now.
Athletes peak in their late 20s and early 30s. In intellectual endeavors (despite prominent counterexamples, half of whom were like Keats or Galois and died on ascent) most people peak in their late 40s or 50s. So there isn't the same call to quit after a few years of success.
This is more of a popular myth than reality. It's more common in math than in other fields, and mathematicians peak earlier than, say, writers (35, as opposed to 55, would be my guesses) but it's not actually the norm for a mathematician to do his best work in his 20s. Those stories are cases of the exception proving the rule.
Maybe not in eir early- or mid- 20s, since nowadays at that age it is hard to even have enough familiarity to be able to define the major open problems (most of my colleagues focus a lot on devouring book to try to get ahead of this curve). Still, major work is generally done by one in eir late 20s or early 30s. It has long been the case, and still continues to be (Green and Tao proved their famous theorem at the age of 29). Hardy lamented that math is a young person's game. The book "A Beautiful Mind" discusses how Nash's 30th birthday was a gloomy one, since it generally means the end of one's major contributions to the field. You can't even win the Fields medal unless you're under 40.
Now, of course there will be counter-examples, but these are not the majority, and generally come in those fields where you have to digest a great amount of material and push your way through for long stretches of time (grad students and post-docs also tend to figure prominently in these cases)
Interesting... what about endeavors where the biggest factor in the eventual success is commitment to the venture? I think that as one grows older, one is more critical of oneself and thus liable of giving up earlier.
This really isn't a useful generalization. Nor factual. If people are genuinely interested in peaking, read "Overachievement" and "Talent Isn't Everything".
brilliant. reminds me of the missive: if you are the type of person who would stop working once you obtained a fortune, then you are never going to get a fortune...
Hopefully I'll get to the point where I can live comfortably off the wealth generated by work I've already completed. If I do, at that point, I won't stop using the computer. I won't stop writing software. I will stop setting the alarm clock though, and I'll stop saying "I have to work" to my wife when I'd rather be spending time with her, and I'll stop working with hard deadlines.
I won't sit on a beach all day, but a few hours a day would be very nice!
I work in finance (trading) so from my perspective, I have seen many people come into this field wanting to "get rich." They soon find that the most successful investors/traders are not those who want to get rich, but rather love financial markets. So I am in complete agreement with you. The equivalent, I think, would be me joining a web app startup to "get rich" because I want to be "rich", rather than I am passionate about exploring the problem space that I will solve with the web app.
As a side note, the reason this is always the first site I visit when I am on the internet -- because everybody is exploring their chosen problem space passionately for the fun/excitement of it.
I don't work for a startup, and I don't own one - But to answer your question -
To me being rich is not about money, its about being able to do what I want to do, when I want to do it. Money only buys me freedom, and thats it.
Having said that, I would sit back, kick of my shoes for a couple of months, and spend time introspecting. What's my purpose, what do I want out of life. Then go out the pursue that.
Spending time on a quiet beach sounds great, but gets old quickly.
Not that we need another Office Space reference, but I would do nothing. For a while, I would drift and do nothing in beautiful and interesting places.
When I'd done enough of nothing, I'd create and record some music. Rock, techno, maybe a hybid of both.
Then I'd try and rediscover the joy of programming, now that I didn't have to do it for money.
I don't think I have to be rich to do all of this (though that might get me nicer accommodations, better guitars, and more impressive equipment), but haven't yet figured out the details of how to do it from my own economic situation. Getting out of debt is probably a good starting point.
Depending on the amount of $ I have, I agree with this. If I was only filthy rich, family education would come first. If I was stupidly/insanely/infinitely rich, everyone would benefit from free education.
I spent ~1.5 years working on an app that would do just that. I've since put the project on hold: the problem is just so huge that it's very hard to whittle it down to "just" an app that can be made within a reasonable amount of time, and have it be useful.
1) Kick myself for not selling six months ago when valuations would have been stupidly higher (relatively speaking). :) I think this is the grown up version of "I'd wish for a million wishes!"
3) The other half into a fund for playing / investing / geeking. I think once you get to the point that you have enough money that you don't need to go into work any more the next horizon is to make other people successful like you (looking at YC, here)
On the other hand, if it was enough less that this wasn't really doable, I'd at least structure the money in such a way that I couldn't blow it immediately. I understand that it's too common for lottery winners to become depressed and possibly even suicidal after mismanaging their money. It would be important to cover this before I started spending money on things that I would think I wanted (Porsche 911 turbo comes to mind immediately).
It would, and it would arguably be more efficient, too. I'd consider it, depending on the overlap of projects they undertake and the projects I'd prefer to support.
Because I care a great deal about conservation but am unwilling to put in the many years of education required to become a zoologist. I think that I could run a zoo effectively and compassionately, showing the public these majestic, exotic animals that are at such great risk while doing my best to return their species to viability. Isn't that what zoos are all about?
Because most zoos I have been to belong to one of these two categories:
- Unbelievably boring places with not enough fun and way too much education. You bring your kids to the zoo so they can learn something, not so some boring guide and put them to sleep with stuff that would probably put a zoology professor off.
- Shamelessly profit minded. SeaWorld, I'm looking at you. Blatant animal abuse for the "entertainment" of the masses - come see our lazy, fat animals roam about ready to expire at a moment's notice, but feel free to buy more overpriced feed so you can keep stuffing their gullets! What? Educational factor? Whuzzat?
Maybe I wouldn't create a zoo if I were rich, but it wouldn't be a waste of time. The world desperately needs zoos and aquariums that are able to educate as well as entertain.
Duty:
* Make sure that if I do nothing else, and barring a collapse of society, I don't have to work for anyone else again.
* Make sure my wife can stop working for others, too.
* Make sure my daughter can afford to go anywhere for higher-education. If she doesn't want to go to school, provide her the ability to try startup ideas.
* Make sure my parents and parents-in-law are looked after.
* Keep my relatives provisioned with computers, and buy my Dad copies of Mathematica and Matlab.
* If I have sufficient funds, make sure my relatives can study anything/anywhere they want, as long as their marks are sufficient.
* Prepare to leave some money to various causes.
Fun:
* Actually spend the summer playing tennis, instead of in crunch mode.
* Take my parents to Wimbledon, the French Open, the US Open, and the Australian Open.
* Re-activate my Scuba licence, and spend some time diving.
* Go sky-diving
* Go on a "shooting range tour" where I fire all those guns you only see in games and movies, and to some kind of CQB training.
* Learn to fly a plane
* Learn to fly a helicopter
* Re-learn how to ski and spend more time doing that.
* Spend more time playing piano. Maybe learn the cello, the violin, or guitar.
* Spend some time in extremely remote locations, like the high-seas, in mountains, or underground.
Non-Commercial Research:
* Read even more. Make sure I've read the classics.
* Spend a few years really learning Physics, at least up to EM with relativistic effects, QM, and GR.
* Learn cell and molecular biology fundamentals.
* Research Superconductivity.
* Research computer vision, motion control, learning, and memory.
* Research and implement a lifestyle that maximizes my own cognitive abilities, even if it's eccentric.
* Re-learn French and German. Learn Mandarin and Japanese.
* Research and implement programming languages.
* Research meta-programming.
Make:
* Build a legged tele-operated or autonomous robot.
* Build a submarine
* Start or contribute to open-source projects in games, simulation, and education.
* Start a game studio.
* Become a competent illustrator
* Make an animated short.
* Make a smart sci-fi film
* Build a virtual CAVE.
Having said that, I saved some money and took two years off to pursue all of my life-interests (mine, in fact, are quite similar to yours) but when it came down to it, I surfed the web, played games, did a small amount of programming and just doddled around all day for the majority of my time off. Then I went back to work.
To me it comes down to one thing: purpose. If you have no specific purpose, you just get caught-up in day-to-day living. The main thing I learned in my two years off is that I can accomplish 99% of what I want to do with my life whether I have a job or not.
To be rich means a lot of things. You can be named rich if you have either $10M or $10bn in the bank.
Let's say, realistically, that I have $10M.
First of all I'd cut all unnecessary costs, rent a smaller flat and spend a year thinking about my life, studying something just to clean my mind, collecting startup ideas. It is important not to freak out.
Then, I can either go back to the university or start another company. I think it depends on my thoughts during this gap year.
1. Pay off everything for me and my closest family.
2. Buy house on Hawaii and in Whistler.
3. Batmobile.
4. Try to solve a big, hard problem that I didn't have the means to before. Perhaps not one as "pie in the sky" as "make solar power work" or "cure cancer" but something along those lines.
I run to keep in shape. I would spend some of my extra time making sure I was training to my potential rather than just enough.
I would build a small workshop and/or apprentice with someone to learn how to do some modest woodworking. It appeals to me as a nice hobby, but one which time and resources do not allow me to pursue at this point.
I would practice guitar more often/seriously.
I would read more often, and spend more time in quiet reflection.
I would continue to develop applications, as I love many aspects of it.
I would take a vacation per quarter rather than a vacation per year.
Basically, commit more time to improving myself and my skills rather than committing more time towards improving my financial condition.
Your comment caught my attention (I studied logic with Esther's mother years ago) so I looked up Fluidinfo. This is impressive stuff, and Terry Jones is a singularly impressive, engaging, understated guy. After browsing his blog for a while and watching part of some videos, I'm sure I want to see more.
I'm curious how you found out about this, and what you think of it?
Aside from the usual self enrichment activities. I would set up a foundation that does many small unique services to a community.
Examples:
Go around to different communities to offer free construction to link up sidewalks to make it more pedestrian friendly.
Consulting and financing to small shoppes so they can stay unique and viable against large competitors.
Setup free clinics that solely cater to helping people sleep more restfully.
Move to the US. I wouldn't need to be super rich to do this - just have $300k or so in liquid "doesn't matter if I lose it" funds. Yes, the US's immigration rules are tricky ;-)
But then? Pursue all of my crazy number of hobbies to excess. Attend Stanford or a similar institution (for the love of learning, not for a specific goal). Be able to let my wife find the job she wants rather than the one she needs. And so forth.
Definitely one. If your bank account is full of zeroes, then you're not rich, but with a lot of ones, you are (as long as none of them is a sign bit....)
Find the hardest problem that intrigued me personally and start working to solve it. Hire some top-drawer help to have some great minds to bounce ideas around. Keep it simple and focus on bang-for-buck.
Heck. I guess I'd do the same thing as now, except I'd have more resources to do it with.
Mega mega rich: I would create an electromagnetic cannon to help us escape earth more cheaply and rapidly, and invest in technologies to help us colonize other planets.
Leisure rich: I would study martial arts, get personal training every day, and work on projects with my friends.
invest your money in social causes, if possible your time into it as well. OR spend more time on working what you did to be rich on the first place, so you can spend even more on social causes BUT do take out time to relax and enjoy with loved ones as well.
• Move to the SF area
• Attend loads of cool conferences
• Splash out on some new gear — a new Mac for starters
• Be able to spend a lot more time on personal projects
• Start a new startup; its not work if you enjoy doing it. ;)
6-12 months of adventure traveling, lots of reading, and spending time with people I don't get to see often enough. Buy a fast car and move to a little nicer place (with a bigger garage). Then start another company.
Do: snowboard and hike on awesome mountains, kiteboard on the nicest beaches, learn both sports really well, spend more time with family & friends
Not do: spend time indoors staring at a computer screen
Become an angel investor. Help startups grow. Share knowledge. Provide relief from those who don't know or understand how to really make a startup work. And, ideally, make more money.
spend more time with my kids: hiking, skiing, building robots, volunteering with school.
Then do it again, except this time I want to control the money AND the math.
I went to the most peaceful spot I could find, and relaxed. I did nothing. http://www.vimeo.com/1292105
After only a couple days, it was never more clear that I was never doing anything for the money anyway, and the reason I'm always working, driving, pushing, learning, growing, and building companies is NOT about the future-goal but increasing the quality of my present moment. It's exciting! It's fun!
So, I started working again. Not because I have to, but beacuse I want to. It makes my brain spark in a way that not-working doesn't.
So here I am again, programming, excited about some new thing I'm working on, exactly the same as before I sold the company. I didn't buy anything because there's nothing I want. My debts were already paid off.
Philip Greenspun's article really does describe it best. http://philip.greenspun.com/materialism/early-retirement/
So does Felix Dennis' book How to Get Rich. http://www.amazon.com/dp/1591842050
Feel free to contact me directly if you have any specific questions you don't feel comfortable posting on the board here. http://sivers.org
- Derek