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Steam's Last Stand (technicshistory.com)
108 points by cfmcdonald 11 months ago | hide | past | favorite | 70 comments



I know about the post title rule but I would be surprised if anyone clicks on this not assuming it's about the video game digital distribution service and storefront.

That said, here's a lovely video from YouTuber "Aging Wheels" about a (working!) scale model of a British steam truck: https://youtu.be/PFKa8K9qZBQ


Author here. Having been neck-deep in steam engine history for years, the possible confusion caused by the title didn't even occur to me. It's obvious in retrospect. I guess I created accidental clickbait.


Thanks for your comment back… I clicked on it for game market Steam as well, but I learned a few years ago that my great grandfather built some steam cars in Rochester around 1900, so I found this fascinating. Thanks!


It did confuse me … not going to waste my time on steam last stand. The game market is good enough … what last stand :-)


I don't know why Steam would choose the name of an existing element. Why would they choose to confuse us like this?

(Just a joke about the LORA complaints that always come up)


No clue what LORA is. But I've assumed they choose confusing names so it's more difficult to search for reviews or technical info about the modems online.

See: "TVCABO" vs "NOS" ["We"]. "TMN" vs "Meo" ["mine", mispelled].


Long Range Radio (LORA) vs Low-Rank Adaptation of Large Language Models (LoRA)


Steam is not an element; I don't get the joke.


Indeed, it's a secondary element, since it's produced by mixing the primary elements of fire and water.


When you mix elements, don't you get molecules?


I believe it's an old alchemy joke back from when the "elements" were things like fire, air, water or earth.


Jokes get better with explanation, right? If Fire and Water are elemental, then their combination, Steam, is molecular, no?


Well, it is an element of steam engines...


Like a valve...


Yes, turned out not to be the "Steam" I was thinking of.


YouTube Goes Flat, more than youn need to know about the inner-tube industry.


I automatically though about steam, the game distribution service. I guess most people would.


I confess when I saw "Steam" I thought it was about the game company. That said, working it into "Last Stand" made me think it was about the engine technology. The game company is still going strong, no?


I also came looking for something about the game company, but I was happy for the confusion. Fascinating topic.

Maybe if we can get nuclear cars, we can go back to steam turbines! :-)


I don't know, (technicshistory.com) kinda give it away immediately for me.


Yeah, I was quite curious, given Steam's current dominant position in the PC game store market.


That channel is a gem!


Steam the software maker is definitely not making "a last stand", people know context.


The irony here is that Steam is not the software maker, Valve is. So you don't even know the context.


There isn't a universal context for people to know or not know, you know? If anything I'd expect the most relevant 'Steam' in most readers lives to be the company


Valve is the company, Steam is a product.


every coal and nuclear electric power station, and a good fraction of the oil ones and part of each combined-cycle gas power station, runs on steam. these are still the majority of the electric power grid. so all those electric cars you see on the road, as well as the streetlights above them and the factories they were built in, are powered primarily by steam. it's just coupled to them through wires instead of driveshafts

so 'The steam car was an inflection point where steam power, for so long an engine driving technological progress forward, instead yielded the right-of-way to a brash newcomer. Steam began to look like relic of the past, reduced to watching from the shoulder as the future rushed by' is utterly clueless

(so is contrasting steam engines with 'combustion engines'. steam engines are combustion engines, except for the ones in nuclear power stations; they're external combustion engines, while the onboard engines that commonly run cars are internal combustion engines. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion_engine)

so the overall framing of the article is wrong, but that isn't its main thesis. its main thesis is that steamers were slow to start up and complicated to run, and then the matthew effect took over. i don't know enough about early automotive history to evaluate this thesis, but an obvious alternative hypothesis is that only henry ford knew what the fuck he was doing, so everybody else (including gm, which he had sort of founded before he founded ford) copied him once he outsold them ten to one in the 01910s


Author here. Some of the apparent errors here are due to the fact that this is part of a larger series, more of a book in blog form.

> every coal and nuclear electric power station, and a good fraction of the oil ones and part of each combined-cycle gas power station, runs on steam.

I'm aware of this. This is written in the context of the cultural decline of steam power as something people think and dream and write science fiction about, not its physical elimination from the world. See this post [0], particularly the last section, "The Twilight of Steam."

> so is contrasting steam engines with 'combustion engines'. steam engines are combustion engines

I'm aware of this also. But internal combustion engine is a mouthful, so I elected to shorten it, as described this post [1]

> but an obvious alternative hypothesis is that only henry ford knew what the fuck he was doing, so everybody else (including gm, which he had sort of founded before he founded ford) copied him once he outsold them ten to one in the 01910s

This can't be correct, because internal combustion cars left steam cars in the dust well before the 1910s; it was obvious to most people that internal combustion was winning by 1903.

[0]: https://technicshistory.com/2024/04/25/twilight-of-the-age-o... [1]: https://technicshistory.com/2024/03/21/twilight-of-the-steam...


i see, thanks! i still think 'combustion engine' is incorrect terminology. maybe your blog will turn out to be so popular that everyone will adopt your terminology, and it'll just be a pet peeve for the olds like me, like using 'literally' as a figurative intensifier. until then, though, it will make people familiar with the field cringe when they read your posts

i think there were a lot of things that were obviously true to people about motorcars in 01903 that turned out to be false; to mention a few, the ridiculous level of danger involved in traveling over fifteen miles an hour, the impossibility of them ever becoming as widespread as horses (due to their overwhelming mechanical complexity), and the utter impracticality of electric cars, though that one took quite a while to change. hindsight is 20:20

maybe if henry ford had still been building steam cars in 01899 when he founded the company that eventually became cadillac (acquired by gm in 01909), the first decade of the twentieth century would have seen the kinds of advances in low-thermal-mass heat exchangers and flash boilers that ford instead had to make in areas such as transmissions and the engine block. but maybe that wouldn't have been enough, or maybe ford's mind was better suited to mechanical and industrial engineering than to thermodynamics. maybe the inherently larger thermal mass of a steam engine doomed it for this application in a non-path-dependent way, much as there are no diesel motorcycles

you probably know more than i do about the relevant history, so you're more likely to be right


> i still think 'combustion engine' is incorrect terminology

I doubt anyone other than your good self is going to be confused by the differentiation between "steam engine" and "combustion engine" tbh.


confusion was not the emotion i was experiencing. it was more like vicarious embarrassment, usually called 'cringe'


This kind of pedantry build on nothing than personal definitions is the worst.


just to clarify, the standard definition of 'combustion engine' includes steam engines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion_engine, while it's mcdonald's personal definition of it that doesn't

as for the pedantry, though, guilty as charged

there is a shorter term for 'internal combustion engine' that doesn't have a conflicting standard definition; you could call them 'explosion engines', which is what we call them in spanish (because 'motor de combustión interna' is even longer). sometimes this term is limited to otto-cycle engines (as in https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_de_explosi%C3%B3n) but logically should include diesel engines as well

in addition to lacking a conflicting standard definition, 'explosion engines' has the advantage that, like 'dynamic programming', it makes the subject sound more exciting


I appreciate the back and forth your comment sparked, very educational, but unrelated to that I would like to know why you precede years with a 0?


https://longnow.org/ideas/long-now-years-five-digit-dates-an...

"It’s an idiosyncrasy to which we are dedicated."


In this day and age where we have lots of extra bits to store values, why go with only five digits? We're just kicking the can down the road. I propose we move to at least 12 digit years starting today: May 31, 000000002024


00000000let's 0000000000do 000000000it


Side note: supercritical CO2 turbines could supplant steam turbines. They could be much more compact. Steam turbines are expensive! I don't know why supercritical CO2 is not more popular so far, the technology has been talked about for 20 years or so and products have existed for over a decade.


that's very interesting! i had only heard about the supercritical pentane turbines, which i don't think you can buy as an off-the-shelf product yet (or possibly ever)


It's surprising that the Watery nature of steam isn't mentioned in the article at all, as it is a terrible material on which to build any reliable consumer technology:

    * Corrosive
    * Heavy
    * Does not lubricate
    * Huge heat capacity, i.e. you get cooked if even a little bit of it gets on you)
About the only advantage it has is being cheap, available, and nontoxic which is cool for factories built on rivers


Steam has fundamental problems beyond engine startup time that are just not solvable. Gas engines can quickly switch from low-power to high-power, meaning that you can kick it up quickly to pass another car or maintain speed up a hill.

It's all tradeoffs, but responsiveness matters. And in terms of responsiveness steam < diesel < gas < electric. There's a reason both diesel and gas have long coexisted: sometimes you need more responsiveness, and sometimes more constant power. Steam was just too far from acceptable for high speed responsive output.


That's not the problem. If you have boiler pressure, going to higher power briefly is fast. But you might run out of steam on a long hill if the thermal inertia of the boiler is high and something isn't done to increase the fuel feed. In locomotives, thermal inertia is so great that fuel input has to be increased in advance of long hills. That's part of the fireman's job. Lack of advance planning can result in a train stuck on an upgrade, with the locomotive unable to generate enough power to get the train started again.[1] (There's some wheel slip, too.)

"Little and Often", a training film for steam locomotive fireman, covers this.[2]

This is the source of the phrase "running out of steam".

This is the full startup procedure for a Stanley Steamer.[3] Shows what all the gauges, levers, valves, and pumps do. Cold startup takes 20 minutes, is very tricky, and if botched the vehicle will be seriously damaged. Nice looking car, though. Pinstriping on the leaf springs!

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJlXB965SAQ

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVIr66K_rUA

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv1VH07e608


The stanly was a much earlier tech, perhaps the best car of it's generation. But compare that to the doble, perhaps the high point of steam car technology before that personal motive power route was abandoned.

https://youtube.com/v/rUg_ukBwsyo?t=1012

Now admittedly the doble was a high end luxury item, But you can see how it could be possible to have a every mans steam car.


If you had a larger boiler volume, you could have a far larger reserve of power on demand... however, that would have come with a huge amount of danger. Steam explosions killed far too many people back in that era. Keeping the boilers small was a wise precaution.


Response time would be one of steams solvable problems. There has not been much research on this aspect in the last hundred years, but off the top of my head.

1. Response time is already great, You have a reservoir of instantly available energy in the form of steam pressure ready to go whenever you need it. look up steam engines slipping their wheels, in fact one big problem with steam is that it is much easier to apply too much energy. Same problem with electric. they need a good torque management system to deliver only the power that is needed.

2. The reservoir response time is too long, Probably not a problem, that is the whole point of having a reservoir, but if it is, make it faster, fire tube boilers, more surface area, etc, a solvable problem. Consider the response time of the reservoir of an electric car. it is far worse than any steam engine, yet you say it has a faster response time.

No the real reason we don't use steam cars is that the engines are more expensive than internal combustion engines without all that much benefit.


It's not solvable. Yes, temporary response is a thing. But if I'm driving around town but then go on a freeway then what? Does it always over-produce around town? Or does it take time to build the new head of steam needed for the freeway?

Also consider how complex a thing you are proposing vs a gas and electric simple solution of "more input gives more output now."


Here is how they solved it in 1925. I feel with our many modern advancements we could do much better.

https://youtube.com/v/rUg_ukBwsyo?t=1012

That said, as neat as steam cars are, there is a reason internal combustion engines won. Probably because they are smaller, lighter and most importantly cheaper.


> "Steam has fundamental problems beyond engine startup time that are just not solvable. Gas engines can quickly switch from low-power to high-power..."

A modern steam-powered vehicle could be based on a steam turbine creating electric power, with a battery and electric traction motor (effectively, a series hybrid). This is how many modern power plants work (coal, gas, nuclear) and would be much more efficient than classic steam engines, by targeting an optimal, constant RPM and torque and providing regenerative braking. It would have plenty of peak power and responsiveness, exceeding gas vehicles and similar to a fully electric vehicle.

But even with the high level of efficiency and performance that this configuration would allow, it's likely a non-starter for environmental reasons, unless you can use a much cleaner fuel than coal?


It also seems to me like running pressure vessels around at 70 mph is not going to be a very good idea. There's a variety of possible ways it may not be a good idea; for instance, you can build pressure vessels than can generally stand up to an impact even at that speed, but they will be quite heavy which causes efficiency problems no matter what other advantages may exist, and will be difficult to hit all our other collision safety metrics with. Keep it light enough to avoid that and now they burst on collision. Plus, you know, people drive cars for a long time and don't maintain them, and again, while you can generally engineer them not to explode any amount of sudden steam escape can become a problem in a lot of circumstances... even radiators, much much smaller by volume, have historically become dangerous at failure points due to the heat and pressure involved. I don't think there's a "sweet spot" for any of these concerns, only points in the middle where you end up with all the problems at once.


As opposed to running a class D metal fire in training at 70mph.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=electric+car+fi...

In reality we as a species are actually pretty good at handling risk. Look at gasoline cars those infernal firebombs on wheels ended up being ubiquitous.


Yeah, we are pretty good at handling risks... as evidenced by our decision to not put steam engines in all our cars.

Engineering solutions have to exist; we can not just will them into being. See also "why our electric cars have not improved in battery density by a factor of magnitude in the past 10 years".


> “It also seems to me like running pressure vessels around at 70 mph is not going to be a very good idea.”

Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles store highly explosive H2 in tanks at up to 700 bar / 10,000 psi. That’s at least 20X more pressure than any steam engine!


I don’t think there’s anything particularly mysterious here. Of the three early automotive propulsion technologies, internal combustion engines were the best compromise at the time, as it was compared to the gas turbine in the 1950s and 1960s, rotary engines in the 1960s and 1970s, and lead-acid and NiMH battery vehicles in the 1990s.


Jay Leno has a Doble car (mentioned in the article as a 1920s attempt at a "user-friendly" steam car revival). The video has great production and really shows the starting and driving processes: https://youtu.be/rUg_ukBwsyo


If you are interested experiencing old steam engines running and can get to western Oregon there is the "Great Oregon Steam-up" every summer.

https://www.antiquepowerland.com/steam-up/


I thought maybe the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Steemer carpet cleaning company might be a descendant of the Stanley steam car company. But it doesn’t look like it - the carpet cleaning company just wanted a memorable name, and a nostalgic name for a ridiculous but charming machine from 40 years earlier fit the bill.


Steam should have been replaced with electric engines right away, bypassing whole combustion engine age.


They should have invented Li-ion batteries as well. What were they thinking…


I would have just went directly to fusion..


They could focus on battery technology more for sure and much sooner than they did. Demand didn't drive it until much later primarily because they thought that combustion engine is good enough.

First electric cars existed already in 19th century by the way.


> They could focus on battery technology more for sure and much sooner than they did

How? That would have required massive investment not backed by any rational reason.

Only way ICE cars wouldn’t have won is if governments had decided to ban them, which would have been absurd.


That's still 19 centuries too late. They had simple batteries in ancient times; they should've doubled down on that back then. /s


The era of horses should have also been eliminated. Instead of horses, they should have gone directly to electric.


Maybe, maybe not. ICEs weren't developed in isolation - they were a part of the larger development, that of petrochemical industry, which is responsible for near everything we recognize as modernity. Rudimentary batteries are cool, but without petrochem, they'd be powering wooden cars with sheet metal exteriors, cleaned with fat and spring water, and moving slower than a horse.


I think we should have gone straight from steam to faster than light warp drives


who said we didn't? we just haven't observed them yet

(this is a bad relativity joke)


No, teleportation, duh.


working on it


Basically did, but then was promptly abandoned, because electric sucked really really badly.


Steam is a power generator.

Electric engines are a power consumer.

What you are saying here makes no sense.




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