I know at least one of ideas is that the retail would be relevant to the inhabitants of the top 5 floors. Has anyone seen that work well in action? Or are these just houses on random strip malls.
I don't like the idea of stores I don't care about inviting increased traffic around my house, but i would happily have increased traffic if it meant at least some stores I care about are just downstairs.
Yes, it works pretty much anywhere if the retail in question is the relatively useful/high traffic sort (e.g. grocery stores, bakeries, coffee shops, restaurants/cafes, etc). And it doesn't have to just serve the people of that exact building, if there are a bunch of other 5-over-1's or similar in the immediate area.
Honestly, this sounds like a bit of a stereotypical American question: "Can <thing that the rest of the world already does> actually work at all?"
Edit: I should add that of course there can be other variables at play. For example, if the general street design of the area is more pedestrian friendly, that's helpful to this style of zoning/building, and if the street design is hostile to pedestrians, then these things won't work quite as well.
I think this works fantastic in Capitol Hill neighborhood in Seattle. The ground floor is filled with restaurants, cafes, bars, retailers that define the neighborhood as a cool part of town. There is enough public transportation, grocery stores, and other amenities that it creates a walkable community (a rarity in North America).
The area has downsides, but it is doing well economically.
People walk a few blocks for groceries, to the bakery/cafe, or a restaurant. Other common businesses are pharmacies, drug stores, clothing (separately fashion, thrift, tailor, seamstress, etc), book stores, appliance stores, hardware stores (like Ace not Home Depot), etc.
Where it gets ugly is when the buildings get too big, either vertically or horizontally. I would argue that 5 over 1 is actually the sweet spot.
I like the design. In theory it offers convenience. Go downstairs for a bite, haircut, whatever...
The downside, when they're new, is the rent for the commercial floors is only affordable by mid to upper market merchants. 30 years hence, we could see "gentrification" where thin margin businesses can survive. Like, you can have a grocery store, but it'll be an expensive grocery store with higher mark-ups and fancier food. The coffee shop will be one with thoughtful art pieces and not recycled-trash-cum-art, etc.
Unnecessary requirement, the store in your building might not be relevant to you but chances are another nearby will be. In order to make this work you really need to reduce the restrictions.
It works really well. During the pandemic, everything I needed was within a couple blocks of me. I went so long without needing to drive that my car actually had issues afterwards.
Surprise, it's good for many things but bad for cars... intesting observation in times when many of us realize our environment is more friendly to cars than to people.
> They tend to be expensive real estate, and the landlords prefer national corporate chains, so you see lots of banks, realtors, cell phones stores etc.
If you require the retail space, this is probably a non-issue, because there's only so many national corporate chains that will want to open a store in a given area; if you have a LOT of 5-over-1s in a neighborhood, there should be enough space left over for independent stores too.
You'd think, but I've seen these stay vacant for years. Sometimes from the outside it looks like the developer is using the "retail" space as storage or a workshop.
Sometimes they seem to attract high end medical and beauty/spa businesses. There's nothing wrong with the businesses individually, but a glut of them isn't useful for the neighborhood (nobody needs eight cosmetic dentists). And replacing a strip of walk-in businesses (groceries, cafes, hardware stores, affordable clothing shops) you use regularly with mostly appointment-based services businesses you use occasionally if at all isn't great.
I feel like this is a problem mainly unique to America. It's just way too expensive to open and operate a small retail business there any more, so the only ones that survive are those corporate chains mentioned above (cellphone stores etc.) and the high-end businesses you mention. You just don't see walk-in businesses in most places because they're not economically viable any more. Here in Tokyo, it's completely different: those tiny, independent businesses are everywhere. I'm not completely sure on why this is, but part of it is probably the car dependency (causing things like minimum parking rules), but even in places where the business can ignore parking requirements, it seems rent and labor costs are way too high. Part of this might be from the terrible healthcare system and skyrocketing housing costs. Whatever the reasons, over here it seems to be quite common for people to open small shops and run them by themselves, and that's not something I see in America any more.
I'm aware it can happen, but there are ways to deal with vacant storefront space too. For example, if an area is booming and it's just a matter of landlords "holding out", you could have higher property taxes for vacant storefronts.
The economics of scale that result in WalMart displacing local grocers and local general stores are separate from the zoning policies that result in insufficient affordable retail space and affordable housing, but they're interdependent, creating something of a chicken-and-egg problem...
I live in an area like this and it's great. Off the top of my head, within half a kilometer of my apartment there's:
- 4 grocery stores, including a small turkish one
- a café
- 2 fast food places
- a nail studio
- 2 hair salons
- a school
- 3 bars (4 if you include an ice cream place that has bar nights in the winter sometimes)
- a tailor
- a smokeshop
I'm sure more that I don't frequent. My building itself doesn't have a shop at the bottom, but most buildings around me do. The only necessities that I have to go further at all for are a pharmacy and a hardware store, and they're not far.
I wouldn't say I live in the middle of the city either, kind of on the edge of the "high density" area. As in where I am there are only apartments and businesses but if you go 2 blocks further away from the city center there are also single-family homes. And they benefit from the amenities provided by us apartment-dwellers as well.
Oh yeah. Check the Mission Bay in San Francisco. Everything is walkable and very relevant to my life. I never drive to a grocery store, day care, coffee (3 - 4 places with excellent espresso), kid activities (there a bunch of places - music, soccer field, etc). In fact the first 4-5 years, until we had 2 kids we even didn't own a car - there was no need in SF ... and we enjoyed it a lot.
Now, with my second kid going to school (public) I have to drive (it's literally 1 mile). It has changed the whole schedule. That single drive! Annoys me as hell. It's hard to imagine how convenient it is when you don't have to drive anywhere, even school, day care, etc. This makes a huge difference.
Yup, but that's because, well, the public transit in NYC is just a lot better than almost every other US city (and, let's face it, has a higher proportion of "normal people" riding it).
part of the problem in the US is that the parents, and often times the wider public, give children much less credit than they are do.
children are learning but they are not dumb. They can generally recognize dangerous situations and exercise good judgment, and shocking crimes like stranger abduction are incredibly rare. they can, if services exist, go to the playground and the school unassisted, but unfortunately we now live in a society where even if you trust your kids, someone else might call child services on you.
My partner does this once a week. We have an electric kids scooter. She has to drive the smaller scooter attached to her own since there is no place at school to leave a bike or a scooter. So, works fine, but still quite tedious. Schools apparently are not designed for that, probably they don't want taking care, be responsible, etc, etc.
It can be done, it takes substantially more time with a kid + walking back. My partner is driving my kido using electric scooter - which works fine as well.
To clarify the first part for people who haven't visited yet. About half the neighborhood is some kind of UCSF special district and street parking is reserved. Even at night where I looked. The rest is parking meters and wide streets with needlessly forbidden parking.
These parking meters go wild with what electronic meters allow. The hourly cost changes depending on time of day and events (there are 3 very large event venues that could be served or could abuse this parking area) from perhaps 50 cents (truly cheap for a meter, except no free hours if I remember right) to over 10 dollars (eye watering). And there are no signs showing the current cost or cost schedule - you have to let each meter tell you. And most of these spaces are still full - There is certainly money to be extracted there.
Street parking in Mission Bay is a traumatizing experience :-)
This sort of construction is quite common for new builds in Poland. Usually there's convenience stores, small restaurants/cafes, private medicine practices on the ground floor.
I don't like the idea of stores I don't care about inviting increased traffic around my house, but i would happily have increased traffic if it meant at least some stores I care about are just downstairs.