This does not stop an employer from potentially disciplining or firing you. Laws do, because they bind. Implicit contracts and hope are not a strategy, with regards to worker rights and protections.
What stops my employer from potentially disciplining or firing me is first of all, that I am good at what I do, and second that I negotiate from a position of strength.
If my employer wants me to work off hours, I mean maybe I will, if I don't have anything going on, and I'll take some time the next day where I won't work as compensation for doing that, I won't ask permission.
If I do have something going on, I'll say, "Can't do that. Have something going on". They're fine with it. They're reasonable people. Why would I work for unreasonable people? I would work for someone else.
If they actually did fire me? OK, maybe I look for another job, but probably I'm retired. I saved my money. I negotiate from a position of strength.
> What stops my employer from potentially disciplining or firing me is first of all, that I am good at what I do, and second that I negotiate from a position of strength.
In other words, you are at the tender mercies of your employer, and you rely on them to uphold the implicit contract that they will not cross those unspoken boundaries. I'm glad this strategy works for you, but you are literally placing your livelihood, a roof over your head, and the food on your table at risk to keep it this way. If that's an acceptable risk for you, then sure.
>> In other words, you are at the tender mercies of your employer
There are no tender mercies involved.
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest"
-- Adam Smith
Mr. Smith is talking about the sell side rather than the buy side in that passage, but the same principle applies.
Obviously employers would prefer not to employ employees if there are more profitable alternatives. If my employer decides not to employ me any longer (which is expected, my team was 50 people this time last year, it is 10 people now), neither the roof over my head nor the food on my table is at risk. My life, financially, will go on exactly as it does now.
You can get the same type of thing, but you have to give something up in order to get it. Most people won't and that's their choice and that's fine.
Nope - A large portion of the world works like this. If you work for a place which demands you work all of the time, you either work for an abusive employer, or you get paid a lot of money to be at their beck and call.
If the employer is abusive, find another job. If you are paid a large salary to be a slave to company, consider finding a job with a better work/life balance.
> Nope - A large portion of the world works like this. If you work for a place which demands you work all of the time, you either work for an abusive employer, or you get paid a lot of money to be at their beck and call.
If you mean that most employers are abusive then yes. That’s why there are laws like this one. Non-abusive employers can ignore it because they were already doing the right thing.
See the problem is that if labour laws didn't protect people, then everyone would be constantly under the stress of having one foot out the door and having to look for another job at the drop of a hat. Workplace productivity would plummet and the economy be quickly be tanked
I think you have a poor understanding of what most of the world looks like. Most people on the planet exist in tenuous circumstances which do not allow them to simply go find another job, let alone an employer that isn't abusive, etc. The luxury of being able to worry about these things and take meaningful action to achieve them is truly a recent phenomenon that is not widely distributed.
Look at how dominant the USA is compared to the europeans who love to make fun of us for working so hard. The USA is about to be flung into another golden century due to its dominance in GenAI. Frogs/the EU will be too busy eating caiver served by rude waiters to realize that huggingface and mistral are all they have to compete with us. Eventually they won't be able to afford the caiver anymore. You laugh, but look at how the UK economy is doing. That's the future of Europe.
Yeah it sucks to have a bad wlb work culture, but the alternative is losing what makes America so awesome.
I’m not disagreeing with you but are you directly benefiting from the US’s “dominance”?
The way I see it, unless you’re in the top say 5-10% of tech workers you probably aren’t seeing great benefit from the US’s leads in anything. And anyone outside of that is seeing their general QoL being slowly degraded by ever higher prices and an ever weaker government (due to monopolization).
That's unrealistic. Managers who are unhappy with workers ignoring emails will find a reason to fire them, not promote them, or give them a smaller bonus.
It sets the rules, workers will have to fight for it to be followed still. But sociopathic management now knows workers have a foot to stand on in court, enterprises will be inclined to make it policy. Less sociopathic management might realise they were being assholes and dial it back a bit. Some managers genuinely don't realise that the current "norm" is not fair, since they are deep in the zeitgeist.
Countless exceptions sure but there's no denying this is a good attempt at change.
