> I'm more inclined to believe that H1B workers have other benefits to employers such as longer tenure due to the restrictions of moving jobs.

That is a financial motive. Companies don't want to pay the kind of compensation which would induce employees to be loyal to the company, and so they use H1B quasi-indentured servitude as a cheaper alternative.

I’ve been on an H1B before, a long time back. Most companies do not want to deal with your immigration issues. Bigger enterprises have the resources. But the moment you get smaller, there isn’t a whole lot of patience or energy for that.

As an H1B I May have made marginally less than my peers who were not immigrationally challenged. But as promotions picked up I think that wasn’t an issue anymore.

The one thing I still have though is I’m never the squeaky wheel. Getting laid off on an H1B is brutal. So your tolerance for corporate bs and workplace toxicity is quite high.

This last point is a big one.

I've seen more than one shop that would use contract houses as a way to 'paper over' their internal turnover issues.

After all, even if the internal resource at the body shop asks for and gets a transfer, they've got another body in to finish the contract.

Plus the fringe benefits. That h1b is a sword of damocles, contractor will work 6/10+ even if the main shop is doing 45 on average for engineers.

Which, doesn't get you better code typically, but it let's suits say people are working long hours to get the task done.

I don’t buy this and you should not be selling it :) if H1Bs worked 6/10+ while other employees did 45 all it would take is ONE of H1B’s to reach out to ONE hungry lawyer and the lawsuit will be plastered all over the MSM/Social Media/… the H1B gal/guy would go home to their country with a bag full of money :)

people here on HN (without any merit) make H1B program sound like farming jobs in Texas… too funny

Crazy to think the people who come to US universities to obtain post-bachelor degrees are more qualified than those who didn't... This is purely anecdotal, but my experience at a top institution is that the majority of CS/ECE of MS and PhD programs are foreign students, and the H1B folks I worked with had these advanced degrees.

I don’t think the issue is one of qualification. I think it is wage suppression. I mean if the H1B was a work permit to work anywhere in tech and you could leave without impacting your green card processing for another job - that MS/PhD folks would demand much higher $$.

This is true - inability to switch jobs while on H1B is not right but it is difficult to make that a reality based on the spirit of the program.

If the program is there for "we can't find qualified people in the US to do X" and then you find one such person to sponsor for H1B - the direction in which this is going is that Company is looking for an Employee. If you as an employee than say "imma pack up my bags and go elsewhere" now this is changing direction, now Employee is looking for Company and that is really not what H1B is for.

There 1,000,000% should be like H1E program that works in this direction but I am sure whatever someone tries to come up with there will be hundreds of people here on HN and elsewhere "crying" about "we should first look in the US before we hire immigrants.'

I'm not sure if some American companies have this. I don't believe they do. From hiring I know for sure, if there is someone who doesn't need immigration handholding is about as qualified as someone on an H1B, the former is preferred. Most of the times there is explicit guidance - "we aren't hiring H1B's from this date until further notice". So I know from being on both sides of the coin (as an H1B and then not needing one but being on the hiring side) there isn't a preference to H1Bs. In fact I'd assume the reverse is true.

Now, H1B's will put in longer hours and extra work without complaint and won't take things like EEO action, legal action, etc. against their employer. But it just comes with the territory that as a visitor in the US you do not want legal trouble and would like to preserve your legal status as seamlessly as possible.

To your first point - the H1B exists because they can't find technical (or other) talent in their work zone. So here's the thing - if one company can't find it, neither can others unless that one company is doing something super specialized. They could just provide the ability to move in zones where that expertise is needed and the minimum expected salary the employer must pay. There are solutions if congress gets off their rear-end and tries to find them.

> So I know from being on both sides of the coin (as an H1B and then not needing one but being on the hiring side) there isn't a preference to H1Bs. In fact I'd assume the reverse is true

My experience has been the same but we are just two people with such experience - there is definitely "corruption" associated with this program that you and I personally did not experience.

> Now, H1B's will put in longer hours and extra work without complaint and won't take things like EEO action, legal action, etc. against their employer. But it just comes with the territory that as a visitor in the US you do not want legal trouble and would like to preserve your legal status as seamlessly as possible.

Perhaps... but we do live in a VERY litigious society and I am personally questioning that this is rampant. There are A LOT of highly qualified people that are on the H1B program that won't take sh*t from the Employer. I know I personally 100% would not (I will work LOOOOOONG hours if my entire team is doing the same, I will find a hotshot attorney on Monday if I am the only one forced to work long hours just because I am an immigrant and I am 100% sure there are plenty of H1B's that think the same way. I think we sometimes make an assumption that all/majority/... H1B's come from shithole places and they will do EVERYTHING possible to stay in America (and H1B is probably the most legal way to do so). While that might be true for some, I do not believe it is true for enough people where this H1B wage/... discrimination can be rampant.

> They could just provide the ability to move in zones where that expertise is needed and the minimum expected salary the employer must pay. There are solutions if congress gets off their rear-end and tries to find them.

100% agree with the sentiment of your comment but I do think that this is harder than it appears - if we follow the spirit of H1B program. It can be re-designed into something else, like general "USA has low birthrates and needs immigration - lets create a program where highly qualified people can request to come to work/live/... in the United States..." but IMO this would have to be a different program in spirit to current H1B

WITCH companies. Nuff said.

It doesn't quite work that way. H-1B employees need to have above average compensation or their field. This is part of the application process.

> H-1B employees need to have above average compensation or their field.

In the past decade or so, I have personally worked with an H-1B in the SF Bay Area who was working a full-time software position advertised as requiring a Master's degree, but was making something like $120k/year.

"Must be making above the median pay for the position" might be the way it's SUPPOSED to work, but it's clear that it doesn't ALWAYS work that way.

How long ago was this? If it was long enough in the past, 120k might have been enough. If not, the employer simply broke the law.

It was roughly fifteen years ago.

120k was not enough.

Does that salary need to be above average at the time of hire, or throughout their entire tenure.

If its the prior then if an H-1B employee stays at a company for more than a few years it actually would come out to being cheaper overall, on top of them being more incentivized to just go with the flow and deal with any BS since their stay in the country depends on it. They have significantly less leverage than a US citizen to stay through grueling work conditions or toxic work environments.

I'm not a lawyer.

But as I understand it, this is checked during the visa application process. The visa expires after a few years and requires another application for an extension then. So at least every few years, the salary would have to be adjusted upwards to meet the visa requirements.

I think you're assuming that everyone has a price.

Also H1Bs can't also start their own businesses (at least before this rule). So that was another restriction.

> I think you're assuming that everyone has a price

Nope. They don't need it to work for every worker, they can't get every worker as a H1B either. It working for some workers makes it worth doing for businesses.