I am slowly coming to grips with the fact that this is a genuine widespread hate movement, and the average person that supports it deeply feels this hatred, and personally blames their problems on anyone from another country, culture, or skin color- and doesn't believe those people deserve to be treated as human. I couldn't be more disappointed, angry, and terrified about what comes next.

Far too extreme a view. I'm very unhappy with the H1-B program and how it has been used to depress wages for engineers, but I understand (and agree with) the need for us to compete globally and not stagnate. I have nothing but respect for a lot of overseas engineers and have worked with some very intelligent, kind, generous individuals in my time.

What I strongly oppose is - and I've seen this up close and personal three times in the last five years - large companies or investment companies buying/merging smaller companies, then gradually offshoring/firing (about 10-20% per year) US jobs in favor of overseas jobs while keeping their customer base. These companies, their revenue streams, their customers exist because of US employees and engineers, and yet they're thrown out at the first chance because someone overseas will do the work for less (often one third of a US salary). This is a complete betrayal of the people who worked to build these companies in the first place. These revenue streams would not exist without them.

H1-B is used in a very similar way: they get anyone they can over here, and pay them 10-20% less than a US counterpart, then use that to justify lower wages/raises to existing employees.

I agree that some people unfairly blame the overseas engineer, but don't simply write them off as racist or hateful - they're having their livelihoods taken from them, and leadership is very good at hiding or shifting blame.

Reasonable criticisms of specific policy or programs (like you mention) is not what I or the poster above was referring to- there is a widespread cultural zeitgeist going on right now that is fundamentally emotionally based on hatred, and will broadly advocate for any policy that will harm groups they hate. Comments in this HN post show how widespread and normalized these feelings are, which wouldn't have been normal to express publicly until now.

This is a terrifying time to be in the USA for anyone with the "wrong" skin color, accent, culture, religion, disability, gender identity, sexual orientation, etc.- and many of the people I know in those groups are actively preparing and planning for the worst imaginable outcomes. People in those "wrong groups" are terrified right now, and people not in them - which includes much of HN - are in a bubble and not aware of what is happening.

I understand, and broadly agree for what it's worth - as someone with friends and peers in those groups, I'm very worried about the tone of the discourse.

That said, I think it's good to recognize it's not a 0 or 1, open minded vs racists, or however it could be framed. There are a whole host of people in the middle, and actions like the one I mentioned push people towards the crazier views we see. It makes good people stand to the side and say nothing, maybe, instead of pushing back against it.

Absolutely, you make an important point. The reason this hate movement is gaining so much momentum is that they are the only group validating peoples concerns, but then pointing the finger and telling them who to blame, and claiming to have a solution. Effectively countering it will require a non hate based movement that still validates those concerns.

Right there with you.

Also now seeing my comment is shadowbanned.

HN has really been pretty strong in silencing “counterpoints” as of late. No idea why the moderation team would read a comment like mine and feel compelled to hide it, for simply saying there’s a lot of hate speech regarding this topic. There’s still tons of comments on this thread that are very accusatory of foreigners abusing a fully legal system and logical path towards becoming an american citizen.

It's not the moderation team, your post was flagged dead by regular users, and is vouched for and back (for now).

I agree it is very disappointing that even labeling hate speech for what it obviously is wouldn't be acceptable. I'm curious what peoples reasoning could possibly be for why your comment shouldn't be allowed.

In general HN is supposed to encourage civil, not provocative, and non inflammatory discussion based around good faith arguments. However, there is no way to sugarcoat or steel man hate speech that isn't fundamentally dishonest- hate speech itself would seem to violate HN guidelines, and pointing it out should not.