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That's at best a less-than-complete view of immigration.

For immigrants themselves, it is usually an issue of self-determination and freedom.

I can't say I'm fully privy to the immigration debate in Canada, but framing it as an issue of "growth" could not be a complete view of the advocates of immigration. Especially with the level of acceptance of refugees in Canada.

The not enough housing aspect is completely incidental to immigration. In my city, the overriding reason that we have not built enough housing for even our own children is that people show up to block any environmentally friendly housing proposal, largely arguing against growth. In other words, using the framework you are right now! And it's a rather twisted version of the "we can't have growth" framework because it ignores the underlying reason for not allowing growth: environmental sustainability. So instead, the only housing that gets built is the most environmentally disastrous type of housing: sprawl far away from the locations where people need to be for their jobs and everyday life, causing massive environmental destruction.

I would argue that there are few more counterproductive ways to talk about the environment than to bring up a "need for growth." First of all almost nobody actually cares that much about growth in 2025 and secondly it has disastrous consequences when the rubber meets the road.




Are we both arguing against the growth we see at this time?


Everybody cares about growth. The world will end the minute we finally stop growing. The entire economic system and society will unravel


I don't care about growth, nor do most people I know. We don't need to endlessly consume to be happy. The world won't end when this economic system unravels either, it's not the first and it won't be the last one to fail.


Lol, you have no idea what you're talking about. I lived through the collapse of the Soviet Union. You don't want to live like that.


It was massive turmoil for sure, but world didn’t end (I’m referencing your earlier comment, not downplaying the devastating fall). How would continual growth work? We will run out of everything.


Continual growth is possible in at least two ways:

1) standard sigmoids, which never stop growing yet are also finite

2) standard ecological growth, where growth is never ending but so is death. This is much more typical of systems like capitalism than sigmoids growth. New upstarts experience exponential growth for a whole, then peak, and then die.

Of course be careful of mentioning these standard scientific observations around those in the degrowth cult, as the cognitive dissonance may cause an unpleasant explosion.


We are not limited to Earth.


What planet are you on?

Yes we are.


Do recessions unravel the economic system? Is the UK ready to collapse as a system after an extended period of stagnation?

I guess it depends on your precise definition of "growth" but I am having trouble finding one that can fit with your assertions.


Recessions are slowdowns of growth.


Recessions are consecutive quarters of negative growth. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession




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