>Now both of those obviously contain a kernel of truth
It is not obvious to this observer that either of your claims contain any truth whatsoever, let alone a mere "kernel." In fact, to this observe, both of these claims seem quite ludicrous
I should have phrased the two points less hyperbolical when including that next sentence.
Regarding intelligence services: There's a very long history of CIA misconduct, including spying, abusing and murdering Americans.[0] As well as an abundance of human rights abuses, which aren't, but should be a big issue in American discourse. NSA up in everyone's business is basically the same. [1] We like to claim China is a totalitarian state, but their surveillance is less sophisticated than ours.
Regarding the second point, I don't believe in satanic rituals or lizard people, but it is crazy that democratically elected officials go party with billionaires, european aristocrats and IC people in extremely secretive venues. The networking organizations consistently place them in important positions afterwards regardless of merit or preferences of the electorate. This leads to a neo-feudal class of elites and their sycophants, which is deeply anti-democratic.
Due to my background, I know quite a few of these people, and they are frankly disgusting. The amount of slime, butt-lickery and unearned pathos you have to endure at an "elite" party is just making my skin crawl.
>it is crazy that democratically elected officials go party with billionaires, european aristocrats and IC people in extremely secretive venues. The networking organizations consistently place them in important positions afterwards regardless of merit or preferences of the electorate. This leads to a neo-feudal class of elites and their sycophants, which is deeply anti-democratic.
Trump was never really accepted in high society. The mafioso-type real estate moguls don't mix well with blue blood elites. Truthfully, I only have an extremely patchy view of how these elites work. Looking at history, and how things work in smaller environments, I'd argue that there are different power bases competing with each other. The people around the Paypal mafia; extremist libertarian tech billionaires, including Musk, Zuckerberg and Thiel are relatively new players on the bloc. JD Vance is their man. The Koch brothers have been highly involved in American politics, but aren't involved with power structures usually targetted by conspiracy theorists like Bilderberg, CFR or the Trilateral Commission. Instead they funded a lot of the tea party, right wing media, and work through evangelical organizations, the NRA and think tanks.
They are on some level fighting the deep state, but only to replace some minority interests with their own - and completely subvert democracy to create a neo-feudal plutocracy. People who voted for them as a solution to anti-democratic, elitist corruption are complete fools.
> democratically elected officials go party with billionaires, european aristocrats and IC people in extremely secretive venues
Trump is a democratically elected offical; Musk is a billionaire. They are literally part of that class. It is astonishing that you are trying to claim the opposite of things that are obviously true, and frankly, part of the very problem with Trump's administrations ("alternative facts") and Elon Musk (Nazi salute followed by an attempt to gaslight the planet).
> Trump is a democratically elected offical; Musk is a billionaire. They are literally part of that class.
Trump is an extremely atypical democratically elected official, Musk is an extremely atypical billionaire, they are not part of that social class.
Maybe try to make an effort to understand what people are telling you rather than leaping to accusations and attempts at shaming. (That's assuming you actually want to understand, of course)
It is not obvious to this observer that either of your claims contain any truth whatsoever, let alone a mere "kernel." In fact, to this observe, both of these claims seem quite ludicrous