With such basic and seemingly silly, toxic tactics that they can get away with because of the power position they hold. Zelensky came there jet lagged, alone, while not being able to use his native language.

I'm not making an observation about whether he should have used another language, but just that this was one of the reasons why he was at a huge disadvantage in terms of being able to deal with the blatant bullying.

What I'm saying is that language mattered little. If Zelensky was an anglophone from the UK, he was going to get shafted just the same (as it all looks like he walked straight into a trap there).

This comes across as highly dismissive. The man can speak three languages very competently. That's two more than Vance and three more than Trump. Obviously language matters, but for Ukrainians democracy and sovereignty matter more.

We are both making the same point. The language didn't really matter at all.

I repeat: language obviously matters, and it's one of many factors Trump/Vance exploited to create an intimidating atmosphere. But it's not such an overwhelming factor that it would make Zelensky turn to Russia.

You're making same point as I.

> The man can speak three languages very competently. That's two more than Vance and three more than Trump.

Would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sadly true

Bad choice of target, though. Zelensky has stood up to Putin for three years; he's not going to be intimidated by one meeting with Trump and Vance.

Long list of reasons he is a bad target. A negotiating genius would have known that, which is why even Trump supporters were caught by surprise.

- Only between inauguration and this meeting did Trump even have positive approval. I think it’s uncontentious that Zelenskyy will forever poll higher.

- Around Trump there’s a force field to encourage him that he’s right. The awkward moment Tuesday was when Trump admitted his own numbers on aid given to Ukraine are spongy and faith-based, compared to Macron’s which were turgid, useful, virile, actually bankable.

- Zelenskyy arrived to talk about his thing (being a fighter) and the world saw an ambush by an investment banker and a one-time TV show character. Proving Trump’s at a disadvantage when the other guy is a fighter.

This last one seems the most damaging. Republican politicians had to come out and proclaim Trump is still tough and the biggest problem is that Zelenskyy doesn’t performatively respect that.

The thing for me is, fighting someone in a weaker position than you - even if you win - doesn't really make you look strong. Everyone knows you could beat that guy in a fight already. It just makes you look cruel.