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The strong reason for this attack was Russia's security concerns got ignored and stepped on by a military alliance (NATO).

NATO is a defensive pact. Putin invaded Ukraine because he wants their port, arable land, and because he wants to go down in history as "reuniting" the Russian empire. Also, Russia has wanted to exterminate the Ukrainian cultural identity, which they've tried to do since before the Soviet Union:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/russias-i...

Putin's whining about NATO is pure bullshit propaganda. Just like his claims of Nazis in Ukraine. It's all fiction, where he writes Russia as the victim.




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>>Russia defends Russian nationals on Ukraine from nazis.

Russia loves using this logic, which is completely bonkers. Just try to think from time to time?


No personal attacks, please, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


I've just used the exact same wording they used against me few comments earlier - I should have known better though. Apologies.


There are Russian nationals that live in almost all the countries all around the world. So that's not bonkers, the logic is sound.

Now what's important is when some region has mere fractures of a percent vs when its something like 25%. If your country has 25% Russians and you oppress them - I think Russia has obligation to defend them.


If it was NATO DEFENDING ITSELF

That's exactly what it is and I have no idea what sort of insane, convoluted logic you use to come up with any other idea.

but then it turns out that its arms can be used OUTSIDE of that block

Ohhhh, I see. You believe that defending from an invading force means that you can't attack anything beyond the border? So Russia could just build an ammunition factory right across the border and Ukraine is somehow morally bound not to attack it? Completely insane.


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> A defensive pact provides weapons to a country defending itself. What is so hard to understand?

Whom was Ukraine defending by killing people in its own Donbass and Lugansk regions? Surely not the people living there, as the bullets and rockets were flying towards them from Ukrainian soldiers.

> Not to mention that actual NATO countries are afraid that Putin won't stop on Ukraine

It looks like it's better if they in fact fear that. Less wars that way. If only they stayed neutral, not anti-Russia. But no, they all wanted to provoke the bear for some reason.

Well, hear it roar now.

> Dude you need to lay off Russian propaganda for a minute. But you know what really happens? Russia forcibly issuing native Ukrainians with Russian passports to say "look these are russian citizens now, we need to defend them!" and kidnapping Ukrainian children to forcibly integrate them into Russian society. Not to mention all of the murder and rape, but that's standard fare for the Russian army.

Dude, you need to lay off Ukrainian propaganda for a minute. But you know what really happens? Russia gives money, homes and jobs to the people that voluntarily agree to relocate to it. No one is forces to. And there are lots of reports from those people being thankful to Russia and condemning Kyiv and Zelensky, because what in fact happened is that it was Kyiv that either targeted those civilians or used them as a shield (lots of videos of Ukrainian combatants taking positions right next to houses full of civilians).

How can anyone forcibly issue a passport to someone? Just try to think from time to time. Children get evacuated to safe zones. Of course the safes zones are in Russia now, but no one is held prisoner/captive - they are free to move wherever they like whenever they like. You just painted a humanitarian mission as terrorists kidnapping children. That's just disgusting.

> Yes, Azov batallions were a huge problem in Ukraine.....and they got completely eliminated and people put behind bars before the original 2014 invasion.

Lol what? Who eliminated them? Could you give a few links to the news where Ukrainian officials imprisoned any Azov combatants for their nazism and nazist swastika tattoos?

As far as I know - they were mostly killed in battles between 2014 and now by separatists and Russians. Ukraine never reprimanded any of their nazi battalions for wearing swastikas. They never prohibited their 'trezubets' (trident) SS nazi symbol of that battalion and nazi 'black sun' symbol (that is just quite common among nazis, not especially Ukrainian ones).


Please don't cross into personal attack, no matter how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. Also, if you could please avoid name-calling and flamebait in your posts here, we'd appreciate it - you've been doing quite a bit of that as well, unfortunately.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


My apologies, I got carried away in the heat of the discussion.


It does happen easily, I know. I appreciate the reply!


  How can anyone forcibly issue a passport to someone?
By denying medical care and access to essential medications to anyone who does not hold a Russian passport.


>>But no, they all wanted to provoke the bear for some reason.

Maybe the bear should stay within its borders. No one provoked Russia to do anything.

>>How can anyone forcibly issue a passport to someone? Just try to think from time to time.

You deny them any services until they apply for a Russian passport as again, we know happened.

>>Russia gives money, homes and jobs to the people that voluntarily agree to relocate to it. No one is forces to. And there are lots of reports from those people being thankful to Russia and condemning Kyiv and Zelensk

You're free to gaslight yourself into believing this along with the rest of complete lunacy in your post.

>>Children get evacuated to safe zones.

If you think this is what happens you're drinking the Russian cool aid swallowing the straw along with it.


Could you please stop posting in the flamewar style like this (in addition to not posting personal attacks, as I've asked elsewhere - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43224164)?

It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html




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