> That is all a bunch of hogwash. Most people can get ID for like $20 from their state
There's also the cost of finding and getting copies of supporting documents, which are often in another state (e.g., the state you were born in, not the state you now live in). Records for many older Americans have not been digitized or even centralized so if your family moved when you were very young you may have to search the physical records in multiple counties to find yours.
> Even if I accept it, the answer is not to lower standards. It is to actually help these people get the ID that they need.
Obviously, but the same people passing voter ID laws are also making it harder for people to get ID. They reduce the number of offices that issue IDs, with the reductions disproportionately being in districts that tend to not vote for the people who are passing those laws. They say it is because those districts have much lower drivers per capita so don't need as many DMVs (which are usually the offices that deal with ID).
In the offices that remain they'll reduce the hours in which IDs are issued, getting rid of evening and weekend hours. For many poor people that can mean a full day of lost work to go try to get an ID, and many cannot afford that. Besides the loss of a day's pay these places often have terrible public transit so they are looking at an expensive ride on commercial transportation.
For people in low income jobs these barriers can be huge.
> Anything else permits rampant fraud
Then how come no one has been able to actually find evidence of such fraud? No matter how well funded the search they all come up empty.
> Go try to open a bank account or cash a check without ID. Everyone will tell you GTFO if you don't have the same type of ID needed to vote
23% of people earning under $25k/year do not have bank accounts but manage just fine. On that comment I gave you early with all the links to research that you ignored, someone asked how people live without ID and I posted a response there covering some of the ways they get buy.
Look, I don't like waiting at the DMV either but doing it for a few hours every four to eight years is part of life. I don't believe anyone with a job is actually disenfranchised by this requirement. If they won't do that, then they won't register to vote either. In many cases, you can simultaneously get ID and register to vote too. By the way you can't get a job legally without providing ID, unless you are working gig jobs for cash. The elderly are often given IDs that don't expire.
I might be biased but I don't want people who can't manage to get or keep an ID telling us how to run the country. If you can't manage such a basic task, then you can't run your own life and have no business having a say in how other people live or die. That said, the real solution that would make everyone happy is to subsidize the issuance of ID somehow and to make employers accommodate the required absences. We do that for jury duty, more or less, so we can do it for ID and voting too. The solution is definitely never going to be to get stupid and have zero requirements for ID at the polls.
> don't believe anyone with a job is actually disenfranchised by this requirement.
You are betraying your own ignorance. You clearly have never associated with people from a ghetto if you are saying that.
> If you can't manage such a basic task, then you can't run your own life and have no business having a say in how other people live or die.
There's probably some merit to that but I think it would really depend on why. If you can't in the sense that you just don't follow through that's one thing. Whereas working the same hours that the ID office is open, not having PTO, being unable to afford taking unpaid time off, not being able to afford a personal vehicle; if you can't simply because you are poor that hardly seems a reasonable basis to disenfranchise someone.
If nothing else, it certainly isn't consistent with either the word or the spirit of the current law. If you want to change that then the appropriate course of action is to lobby the general public for it. If you believe you won't manage to convince them then I would like to suggest that it is your views that have no business being imposed on others.
Oh and the kicker? It's a poor filter anyway, at least for the purpose that you stated. Someone who doesn't work will have little issue passing it since he has no scheduling conflict with office hours and what's a multi-hour trip on public transit to him?
>There's probably some merit to that but I think it would really depend on why. If you can't in the sense that you just don't follow through that's one thing. Whereas working the same hours that the ID office is open, not having PTO, being unable to afford taking unpaid time off, not being able to afford a personal vehicle; if you can't simply because you are poor that hardly seems a reasonable basis to disenfranchise someone.
Not everyone gets PTO. People from the ghetto, as you say, work part-time and can simply reschedule their work in most cases or go during off time. They are not working every single weekday during business hours, in general. Have you ever worked in the retail or restaurant industry, or done gig work? Nobody is booked solid like this. Besides, even the ghetto people need ID to buy alcohol and cigarettes, and to cash welfare checks.
Not to be a jerk, but there is a good reason for very poor people to have less say in how the country is run. You don't get poor by being super productive or owning a stake in the country. Poor people could be seen as not having skin in the game. The relationship between contributions and wealth is loose, as is the relationship between contributions and merit. But let's just say that people who have nothing to lose, and who probably hate the most productive members of society out of envy, and who may have severe character flaws or mental issues holding them back, probably are not on the same level as the best among us. We have decided to run our country in an egalitarian way that ignores these differences in general, but when we look at extremes I think the outliers are still jarring to most people. There are many people who fail at every aspect of life and envy others, who can vote to make others miserable too.
>Oh and the kicker? It's a poor filter anyway, at least for the purpose that you stated. Someone who doesn't work will have little issue passing it since he has no scheduling conflict with office hours and what's a multi-hour trip on public transit to him?
For an important appointment once every four to ten years, you can get a friend to drop you off or else take Uber. Don't give me this shit about being unable to get to the DMV. I've lived in red states and the DMV offices are perhaps 10 or 20 miles apart. In the worst case, you live way out in the country. I want you to start talking to people to see who doesn't have an ID. I'm sure you'll find that everyone with a regular job has one. Everyone who serves you or interacts with you in everyday life, besides some illegal immigrants, will have one. Basically everyone except children and the very elderly or disabled will have one. It is easy and cheap to get, and essential, so anyone who is not a complete hermit or headcase is going to have one.
There's also the cost of finding and getting copies of supporting documents, which are often in another state (e.g., the state you were born in, not the state you now live in). Records for many older Americans have not been digitized or even centralized so if your family moved when you were very young you may have to search the physical records in multiple counties to find yours.
> Even if I accept it, the answer is not to lower standards. It is to actually help these people get the ID that they need.
Obviously, but the same people passing voter ID laws are also making it harder for people to get ID. They reduce the number of offices that issue IDs, with the reductions disproportionately being in districts that tend to not vote for the people who are passing those laws. They say it is because those districts have much lower drivers per capita so don't need as many DMVs (which are usually the offices that deal with ID).
In the offices that remain they'll reduce the hours in which IDs are issued, getting rid of evening and weekend hours. For many poor people that can mean a full day of lost work to go try to get an ID, and many cannot afford that. Besides the loss of a day's pay these places often have terrible public transit so they are looking at an expensive ride on commercial transportation.
For people in low income jobs these barriers can be huge.
> Anything else permits rampant fraud
Then how come no one has been able to actually find evidence of such fraud? No matter how well funded the search they all come up empty.
> Go try to open a bank account or cash a check without ID. Everyone will tell you GTFO if you don't have the same type of ID needed to vote
23% of people earning under $25k/year do not have bank accounts but manage just fine. On that comment I gave you early with all the links to research that you ignored, someone asked how people live without ID and I posted a response there covering some of the ways they get buy.