I'm certainly an anomaly but since to me the downsides of social media have always been quite prominent and seemed to outweigh the benefits by a margin, I never jumped on the social media train.
But I've got to say, it's getting harder and harder to keep that up. As our kids get older especially, almost all of their social activities are somehow tied to social media one way or the other: no matter what they're joining, minimally there's a WhatsApp group. My wife has reluctantly joined WhatsApp and if it wasn't for that, it feels like we would pretty much be destined to become social outcasts.
In one recent instance, we weren't even aware of a parent group for one of our children's school class until someone asked us (in person!) why we didn't come bowling the previous night. We had no idea, and no-one sees the necessity to include someone who - for whatever reason - is not on WhatsApp.
I can see the argument that we are inconveniencing others by not wanting to be reachable to what has now become a standard means of being in touch, and that we cannot expect others to jump through hoops just to include us. But a few years back, I was quite deeply involved in privacy research and I definitely feel no inclination to share all of my communications (and pictures) with Meta.
I'd still not class WhatsApp as a social media platform as your story implies. It is a communication tool for the most part with some social features slowly being baked in. The downsides you're speaking of are far more applicable to Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and similar, more than WhatsApp, Telegram, or Discord.
I don't know where you're based, but in general these days at least one "chat app" of some kind is the de facto standard in most countries. For a lot of the world, that's WhatsApp.
The US is an outlier in still relying majorly on SMS as the communications platform.
I’m with the GP on this on. WhatsApp should absolutely be covered under the same umbrella here due to it being owned by Meta, who have a long history of breaking promises regarding privacy.
And since a lot of people do keep in contact via WhatsApp group chats, it’s hard to ignore the social implications of WhatsApp too. It’s as much a social platform as the others albeit with a different broadcast model.
As a parent, I have to monitor my child’s WhatsApp groups to check they’re safe, just like I would their YouTube and Instagram feeds. And I have to check they’re also being safe with the stuff that they share on WhatsApp, just like you would on any other social network.
> As our kids get older especially, almost all of their social activities are somehow tied to social media one way or the other: no matter what they're joining, minimally there's a WhatsApp group.
That is by design. To privatize public spaces and control what is said in that spaces to monetize it is the goal. No individual parent can fight the power of the corporations that push us in that direction.
The public discourse of TV and other media is dying, while the private echo chambers owned by corporations are increasing. That is not good either.
What I think the study is missing is the impact of social media on society, and impact on society on individuals wellbeing. I see an increase in paranoia, extremism, pessimism, etc. caused directly by that closed communities that spin out of control and create the perfect dish plate to grow the most paranoid people. For kids and teenagers it will be worse, as they are still growing and learning.
I feel your point but I don't think WhatsApp counts as social media. It's a group messaging app, same as Facebook Messenger, Signal, etc. Those messaging apps don't have the typical social media downsides -- you don't need to maintain a profile, there's no doom scrolling, etc.
Whatsapp is the main doomscrolling app for older Indians. They share endless AI generated right-wing slop, their brains are absolutely cooked by this stuff.
Another problem is the social fragmentation caused by electronic social interaction being split among so many different platforms: Facebook, WhatsApp, Viber, iMessage, SMS, etc.
Even the device platform you choose segregates you. There are a few neighbor families our family is close to. They(neighbors and my family) all talk on iMessage. I've got an Android/eOS device so I am excluded from the chats. At least my wife shares them with me.
There was a time that people set standards for (landline) telephone communications for the sake of interoperability. We need the same for other technologies. I'm sick of trying to be social in corporate controlled gated communities surrounded by impassible walls.
The OP doesn't seem to make a difference between social media for consuming content that the "algorithm" crams down your throat and simple group chats that are usually closed and invite only.
Tbh I have a feeling it's the kids' fault. They call everything social media now. No separate names for FB and WhatsApp even though they do totally different things.
> Depending on interpretation, other popular platforms that are sometimes referred to as social media services include YouTube, Letterboxd, QQ, Quora, Telegram, WhatsApp, Signal, LINE, Snapchat, Viber, Reddit, Discord, and TikTok.
The broad interpretation that includes Reddit would also categorise HN as social media which I think is fair.
I think the problem actually is the adults that are not being specific about which problems they want to stop when they broadly say that social media is bad.
Like you say, the problem is specifically things like algorithms that are tuned for engagement, which results in all kinds of negative effects.
That being said even this is not specific enough. HN although different is also run on an algorithm that is meant to surface the most interesting things. The site rules on HN avoid some of the bad effects, but it’s still possible to be negatively impacted in other ways like checking HN too often and too long instead of doing other things.
> Look at how broad the definition on Wikipedia is.
But wikipedia doesn't make up definitions, just lists the commonly used meaning.
> I think the problem actually is the adults that are not being specific about which problems they want to stop when they broadly say that social media is bad.
Adults are also talking about cell phone addiction, like browsing FB/Instagram on your laptop is any better.
> HN although different is also run on an algorithm that is meant to surface the most interesting things.
Is it? I thought it was human upvotes and maybe a few human mods...
It would be interesting to determine why HN still works btw. It's a pretty unified community that is fairly large.
Is the main reason that it's basically a non profit?
> I thought it was human upvotes and maybe a few human mods
That’s the algorithm of HN :)
It computes the score of posts based on some combination of time since posted + number of comments + number of upvotes, etc.
> It would be interesting to determine why HN still works btw. It's a pretty unified community that is fairly large.
> Is the main reason that it's basically a non profit?
Yea I think so. Being driven not for profit, plus having a specific overarching guideline for what type of content belongs here;
> On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
I never used any "social media" besides the instant messengers. I try to minimize WhatsApp in favor of better options.
It's a constant, uphill battle. I feel that dating is impossible w/o WhatsApp, if you exchange phone numbers with someone at a bar, it's completely useless if you can't contact them on WhatsApp afterwards. Almost nobody (at least here in central Europe) has any other messenger, and every other avenue of contact would be either considered very pushy (like calling) or from the 90s (like SMS).
Taking part in group events also becomes a headache if you don't join the related WhatsApp group.
I find it appalling that basic features of human social functions are subject to the whims and profiteering of a quasi-monopolist company. There should be heavy regulations, at the very least.
That's interesting to hear. I feel like in the states, SMS/iMessage is an expectation. I only have whatsApp because some of my clients use it for communication. It's a bit confusing when I get a cold call, or a message from a new number through whatsApp.
It's not that bad or that hard to avoid social media. I'm in my early twenties and never had much social media. You're right in that WhatsApp is almost everywhere (in certain countries) and hard to avoid. But WhatsApp is still a messaging app and not as bad as Instagram, TikTok etc. I'd say, use something like Signal for all your close communication with family and close friends. If those are close friends I'm sure they'll use Signal to communicate with you too. I guess keep WhatsApp installed but use it only for those groups and not really for any personal chats.
As for the really attention grabbing social media like Instagram and TikTok, if your kids want to get on there I'd say provide a good alternative. Something they can use or open if boredom strikes, because there definitely are those moments when that happens and one just grabs the phone. For me it's mostly been HN and books, some YouTube channels with NewPipe and some podcasts.
Social media (and apps like WhatsApp) have basically become the new default infrastructure for everyday communication, and opting out can unintentionally make you feel like you're opting out of life, especially when it comes to your kids' social circles.
Are you in the US? No one uses whatsapp in the US. This would have been done as an sms groupchat in all likelihood. Everything friends plan is on sms these days. Maybe its my generation, we don’t like signing up for accounts anymore when everyone can trivially text.
Your comment made me breathe a sigh of relief, because my kids are rapidly approaching “I need to communicate with their friends’ parents” age, and I don’t think I have it in me to sign up for WhatsApp. I’m in the US and I’m ok just texting. iOS supports RCS now, it’s good enough.
I actually took the time to sign up for WhatsApp just now to see how it works nowadays, and it’s still the same as it was before: nags you to no end to enable full Contacts access (no, Meta, I’m not letting you dump my entire contacts database into your app so that you can data mine it). iOS lets you select a minimal set of contacts to give it, but if you do this, it still shows you a full screen saying to enable full contacts access before it will let you contact anyone. No thanks. (I deleted my account immediately again, maybe I’ll try again in another 5 years.)
I'm guessing you are a younger generation than I am. My friends group tends to use Facebook Messenger for this. I never use Facebook myself, but do use messenger for essentially texting people.
I see the opposite trend, as the (imo much needed) shock from Jonathan Haidt's 'The Anxious Generation' is only starting to really resonate in the minds of educators and parents.
No smartphones allowed at school, strict usage limits for older kids at home, etc.
If only somehow we managed to make social media uncool for the kids, that’s the most sure way they’d stay away from it.
I guess proper education on the real aspects of the social media phenomenon would be the real deal. For example, explaining how/why the companies use their algorithms to keep you in there; influencers only want to sell you a product; why posts/stories don’t reflect reality at all, etc.
But understanding all that would require quite some amount of emotional maturity from both the kids and parents themselves. Sadly, that doesn’t seem to be the reality at all, there are adults that still can’t see through the cracks..
But I've got to say, it's getting harder and harder to keep that up. As our kids get older especially, almost all of their social activities are somehow tied to social media one way or the other: no matter what they're joining, minimally there's a WhatsApp group. My wife has reluctantly joined WhatsApp and if it wasn't for that, it feels like we would pretty much be destined to become social outcasts.
In one recent instance, we weren't even aware of a parent group for one of our children's school class until someone asked us (in person!) why we didn't come bowling the previous night. We had no idea, and no-one sees the necessity to include someone who - for whatever reason - is not on WhatsApp.
I can see the argument that we are inconveniencing others by not wanting to be reachable to what has now become a standard means of being in touch, and that we cannot expect others to jump through hoops just to include us. But a few years back, I was quite deeply involved in privacy research and I definitely feel no inclination to share all of my communications (and pictures) with Meta.