Uuuurgghh, this is very much offputting... however it's very much in line of American culture or at least American consumer corporate whatsits. I've been in online calls with American representatives of companies and they have the same emphatic, overly friendly and enthusiastic mannerisms too.
I mean if that's genuine then great but it's so uncanny to me that I can't take it at face value. I get the same with local sales and management types, they seem to have a forced/fake personality. Or maybe I'm just being cynical.
>The same emphatic, overly friendly and enthusiastic mannerisms too.
That's just a feature of American culture, or at least some regions of America. Ex: I spent a weekend with my Turkish friend who has lived in the Midwest for 5 years and she definitely has absorbed that aspect of the culture (AMAZING!!), and currently has a bit of a culture shock moving to DC. And it works in reverse too where NYC people think that way of presenting yourself is completely ridiculous.
That said, it's absolutely performative when it comes to business and for better or worse is fairly standardized that way. Not much unlike how Japan does service. There's also a fair amount of unbelievably trash service in the US as well (often due to companies that treat their employees badly/underpay), so I feel that most just prefer the glazed facade rather than be "real." Like, a low end restaurant may be full of that stuff but your high end dinner will have more "normal" conversation and it would be very weird to have that sort of talk in such an environment.
But then there's the American corporate cult people who take it all 100% seriously. I think that most would agree those people are a joke, but they are good at feeding egos and being yes-people (lots of egomaniacs to feed in corporate America), and these people are often quite good at using the facade as a shield to further their own motives, so unfortunately the weird American corporate cult persists.
But you were probably just talking to a midwesterner ;)
A remarkable insight—often associated with individuals of above-average cognitive capabilities.
While the use of the em-dash has recently been associated with AI you might offend real people using it organically—often writers and literary critics.
To conclude it’s best to be hesitant and, for now, refrain from judging prematurely.
Would you like me to elaborate on this issue or do you want to discuss some related topic?
The en-dash and the em-dash are interchangeable in Finnish. The shorter form has more "inoffensive" look-and-feel and maybe that's why it's used more often here.
Now that I think of it, I don't seem to remember the alt code of the em-dash...
The main uses of the em-dash (set closed as separators of parts of sentences, with different semantics when single or paired) can be substituted in English with an en-dash set open. This is not ambiguous with the use of en-dash set closed for ranges, because of spacing. There are a few less common uses that an en-dash doesn’t substitute for, though.
I wonder whether ChatGPT and the like use more en dashes in Finnish, and whether this is seen as a sign that someone is using an LLM?
In casual English, both em and en dashes are typically typed as a hyphen because this is what’s available readily on the keyboard. Do you have en dashes on a Finnish keyboard?
Unlikely. But Apple’s operating systems by default change characters to their correct typographic counterparts automatically. Personally, I type them myself: my muscle memory knows exactly which keys to press for — – “” ‘’ and more.
I also use em-dash regularly. In Microsoft Outlook and Microsoft Word, when you type double dash, then space, it will be converted to an em-dash. This is how most normies type an em-dash.
I'm not reading most conversations on Outlook or Word, so explain how they do it on reddit and other sites? Are you suggesting they draft comments in Word and then copy them over?
I don’t think there’s a need to use Word. On iOS, I can trivially access those characters—just hold down the dash key in the symbols part of the keyboard. You can also get the en-dash that way (–) but as discussed it’s less useful in English.
I don’t know if it works on the Finnish keyboard, but when I switch to another Scandinavian language it’s still working fine.
On macOS, option-dash will give you an en-dash, and option-shift-dash will give you an em-dash.
It’s fantastic that just because some people don’t know how to use their keyboards, all of a sudden anyone else who does is considered a fraud.
On an iOS device, you literally just type a dash twice and it gets autocorrected into an emdash. You don’t have to do anything special. I’m on an iPad right now, here’s one: —
And if you type four dashes? Endash. Have one. ——
“Proper” quotes (also supposedly a hallmark of LLM text) are also a result of typing on an iOS device. It fixes that up too. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Android phones do this too. These supposed “hallmarks” of generated text are just the results of the typographical prettiness routines lurking in screen keyboards.
Fair point! I am talking about when people receive Outlook emails or Word docs that contain em-dashes, then assume it came from ChatGPT. You are right: If you are typing "plain text in a box" on the Reddit website, the incidence of em-dashes should be incredibly low, unless the sub-Reddit is something about English grammar.
Follow-up question: Do any mobile phone IMEs (input method editors) auto-magically convert double dashes into em-dashes? If yes, then that might be a non-ChatGPT source of em-dashes.
Mobile keyboards have them, desktop systems have keyboard shortcuts to enter them. If you care about typography, you quickly learn those. Some of us even set up a Compose key [0], where an em dash might be entered by Compose ‘3’ ‘-’.
Its about the actual character - if it's a minus sign, easily accessible and not frequntly autocorrected to a true em dash - then its likely human. I'ts when it's the unicode character for an em dash that i start going "hmm"
Mobile keyboards often make the em-dash (and en-dash) easily accessible. Software that does typographic substitutions including contextual substitutions with the em-dash is common (Word does it, there are browser extensions that do it, etc.), on many platforms it is fairly trivial to program your keyboard to make any Unicode symbol readily accessible.
Us habitual users of em dashes have no trouble typing them, and don’t think that emulating it with hyphen-minus is adequate. The latter, by the way, is also different typographically from an actual minus sign.
