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Japanese Toilets: The Future Called 30 Years Ago (hopefullyuseful.com)
149 points by ranebo on April 4, 2014 | hide | past | favorite | 168 comments



After using the toilet, do you wash your hands, or just wipe them?

You've just demonstrated why washing toilets are superior. I cannot understand our misplaced, hollow pride in not adopting something which simply works better. I've even heard some especially crazy people try to say the japanese toilets are "perverted" - the hold tradition has on some people is just insane.

Japanese toilets are simply better. For some bizarre reason we've resisted adopting them here. It boggles the mind.


I gave in and ordered a bidet a year ago. Not wanting to commit to some of the expensive options, I opted for the $25 Astor Bidet:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TPGPUW/

Installation involved adding a T-adapter to my sink's cold water line. The whole setup takes about 5-10 minutes if you know what you're doing, or about 30 if you don't. Even if you know nothing about plumbing, you can install this thing with some patience (and probably in well under an hour).

I've been very happy overall. There are lots of similar bidets for varying prices, but the core functionality can be had for $25. I haven't felt the desire to spend any more, this thing just works.

We go through a lot less toilet paper, though we still use some for the drying. This may be too much information, but I do feel subjectively much cleaner. When we travel somewhere without a bidet, it's definitely on the edge of my mind that I miss my setup at home.

I do get weird looks when we have company, but who cares. Continue smearing poop on your butts, heathens.


Seconded. I own this similar Luxe bidet, $35:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KKRCFA/

I'm living in the future. Would recommend one to anyone, zero hesitation.


Woah, neat! My girlfriends whinges about using too much toilet paper (which... well, she does. Way too much) and I've always loved the washlet style things, so this is awesome! Thanks heaps for the link :)


"Continue smearing poop on your butts, heathens."

It is odd that whilst we use specially designed water jets and cleaning products to bathe our approach to bottom hygiene is just to keep scrubbing till there is nothing visible left.

Anyway looks like a good device, thanks for the link.


Not having foot taps is another huge bug bear of mine. Especially in public places.


I like that it's cheap but pretty much the bare minimum feature of a Japanese washlet is to let you set the temp of the water. Lots of places I've lived the water gets pretty cold especially in the winter. OW! ;)


This kind of bidet (not talking about the squat toilets) is pretty common in Turkey aswell. It definitely gets the job done. Using paper to dry up only is causing far less skin irritation too.


Hat tip for the suggestions. I was expecting to have to install a Japanese system + rewire.


Ask a personal question... but do you use your other hand to scrub or just try and jet wash?


I also used to think of Japanese toilets as weird , and overly complex for the task (that may be partially true) but after buying a 35 dollar bidet attachment for my apartment toilet, using any other bathroom feels barbaric. I've resorted to carrying moist wipes when out of town, but even those are a far cry from the efficiency and cleanliness afforded by a washlet/bidet.

I would love for the rest of the country to get over whatever biases or anxiety keeps us from mainstream adoption of an objectively superior system for bathroom hygiene.


After experiencing an electronic bidet in Japan for the first time during a holiday, I returned home wondering how on earth did I manage without it. I was sold. I bought a YoYo 770 for 800$ as soon as it appeared in Europe.


Incidentally, YoYo are now called Quoss for anyone shopping for them. Exact same products, just a different name (also have come down in price by about $200).


the hold tradition has on some people is just insane.

My quarter-Japanese wife won't let me get one - but of course she was raised in America. And TMI, but I've had a doctor specifically recommend one (or cheap bidet setup) for hemorrhoids.


I've had a doctor specifically recommend one (or cheap bidet setup) for hemorrhoids.

That's not TMI. That's important information. Why do they recommend it?


>Why do they recommend it?

Doesn't irritate as much as excessive wiping.


Exactly. There's something about water, the universal solvent and universal lubricant. It's probably the same reason that same doctor recommended sitz baths, and a big secret to most bulk forming fiber is that it absorbs a lot of water.


I really think this is something people have to try for themselves. Also, people should travel more. Japan is such an amazing place.

Using an American toilet in 2014 is like programming your next web app in classic ASP. Time to upgrade.


> Japanese toilets are simply better. For some bizarre reason we've resisted adopting them here. It boggles the mind.

That's not true. One major reason we don't adopt them is the cost of installation. If you have an existing house, chances are there's not an electrical outlet next to the toilet. Why is is important? Because Japanese toilets require power. Why does this suck? Electricians are not keen on working on bathrooms because of all the pre-existing pipes, so to do the job right, they'll probably have to rip off all the walls. Once the electricians are done, you probably have to hire a bathroom remodeler to fix everything up, because again not many licensed people are keen on working on the bathroom unless they specialize in it.


None of which is true when building a new home. But they still don't put them in new homes either.


Yeah there aren't very many new homes in places like the Bay Area or Manhattan either


>Yeah there aren't very many new homes in places like the Bay Area or Manhattan either

This isn't true of Mountain View, Sunnyvale, and San Jose. Perhaps you are thinking of SF?


Most bathrooms do have electrical outlets though - for shavers and things. Conduit is fairly low profile - and if you have a false ceiling then its very easy.


First, the outlet for the shaver and blow dryer are far enough from the toilet that you'll need an extension cord that crosses your sink which isn't going to work. Second I've never seen a false ceiling in a residential bathroom. Not that having one would make it a lot safer. The bathroom is not a place for a hack. You really need to do it the right way or not at all.


I'm skeptical that this is the primary reason. Everything you say is true but a LOT of people spend loads of money renovating bathrooms in the US. Just go down to a Home Depot and look at all the fancy sink, shower, jacuzzi, etc. hardware. Yet I've never seen a Japanese toilet in an American home. In general, toilets just don't seem to be something that gets any sort of special treatment in bathroom remodels. And none of the companies that make all the aforementioned hardware make anything other than standard sit toilets AFAIK.

I suspect it's just something that most Americans (and Europeans) simply haven't experienced or are even aware of. And it probably doesn't help that the initial reaction is probably negative--which may be why nobody's made a serious attempt to push these in the US.


Often that's just drywall - very cheap and easy to replace.


As I've already mentioned, it's the labor that's expensive in either time or money since there are pipes behind the drywall that you're going to rip apart. Also some people put tile over their drywall, the very people more likely to buy an expensive Japanese toilet. We're talking a few thousand dollars.


Sorry to say this but it sounds like you're just trying to come up with any and all excuses to shoot down a valid idea.


I'm just trying to convey my experiences with bathroom remodeling on my own house. Anyone is free to listen or ignore my advice.

I never said it wasn't a valid idea. It's just a hard and expensive one. You guys will find out once you become home owners in the future. Also a Japanese toilet costs the same as a cheap car. If you haven't already guessed, I wanted one for my bathroom for years now. It's just not practical.


You don't need a full unit - you can just do the seat:

http://www.amazon.com/Toto-SW574-01-Washlet-Seat-Elongated/d...

That + drywall + electrical is maybe ~$2500.

Sounds like the only expensive part is if you already have expensive deco.


I don't agree, he's raising exactly the sorts of issues many householders would have. Even just the cost and hassle of redecorating/retiling would put most people off.


The reason you wash your hands is so that you don't spread pathogens to yourself and others. As far as I can tell, that's not the primary reason you wipe your behind.


I think if I got mud on, say, my inner thigh, I'd still want to clean it off. With water.


If I was, say, playing football with friends, and somehow got mud on my inner thigh, I might wipe it off with paper, and then later take a shower.


I might use just paper if water wasn't available, sure. But I'd certainly use water if I had the choice.


You've used correct logic but you missed the point OP was trying to convey.


What did I miss? OP is arguing that we should wash our behinds for the same reason that we wash our hands. Yet the reason we wash our hands is to reduce a threat that does not exist (at least, not as readily) for our behinds.

And now semantic satiation has kicked in for "behind."


>What did I miss? OP is arguing that we should wash our behinds for the same reason that we wash our hands.

No. OP is not arguing that. OP is arguing that if you got mud on your hand and tried to clean it with dry paper, there will still be crusted mud on your hand. Do you see where this is going now?


OP simply doesn't say that. OP refers to the actual common act of washing hands after using the toilet, not the hypothetical act of washing hands after getting "mud" on them.


I think OP meant that washing is good for personal hygiene i.e. not carrying pathogens smeared around on your skin/clothes.


That's a valid point, but not one that directly supports the argument for bidets. Since most people (at least in my neck of the woods) shower at least once a day, personal hygiene is usually accomplished.


But to prove that claim OP would have to show that people who just wipe their asses are more often sick than those who wash it each time.


So personal hygiene is a no-no until you can prove that you can get sick?


I wash my hands because I use them to interact with the world and to eat. Keeping them clean is necessary.

The day I push an elevator button or place food in my mouth using my soiled anus is the day I agree washing it constantly is required and not just pleasant.


Here's the reason it sounds weird to those (like me) that haven't tried: your hands don't have a source of, er, soil, tucked into them in a crevice. So getting them as wet as you like doesn't have any downside.


I've used a Japanese toilet and for me the hand washing facility attached to it is meaningless as I do not understand why would anyone ever wash their hands with cold water. Especially I do not understand people who simply wash their hands by dipping them into cold water for a second.

But maybe the culture of washing hands with warm water and soap is merely in North Europe. And maybe I am illusioned by the effectiveness of warm water.

edit:// English correction


There was a little study about this last year I believe [1]. Most of what comes out of your A is happy living at 37°C, so I'm sure it doesn't mind an extra 3°C or so.

[1] http://www.tested.com/science/life/459452-doing-it-wrong-hot...


It's suggested that there is no benefit washing your hands with hot water with regard to hygeine.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/ist/?next=/smartnews/2013/12/w...

I pretty much always wash my hands with cold water, unless they are especially grimey. The only advantage is that hot water seems to work better with soap, which may help dislodge dirt easier.


> why would anyone ever wash their hands with cold water.

Well it depends on the time of the year. In winter, you certainly don't use them that much because water is freezing cold. But as soon as it turns april-may, water becomes lukewarm or even relatively hot in summer months (summers are excruciatingly hot in Japan), so then it's not an issue anymore.

> And maybe I am illusioned by the effectiveness of warm water.

Do you mean warm water is more effective at washing ? There's actually no basis for that. Surfactants matter more than temperature.


The standing water is likely to be more worrying than the temperature of the water.

http://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/show-me-the-science-handwashi...


> Japanese toilets are simply better. For some bizarre reason we've resisted adopting them here. It boggles the mind.

They are not cheap in Japan, by the way. If you buy a new apartment they are included by default(these companies work like Mafia to secure contracts with new apartment complex builders), but new ones you buy directly from TOTO are like... "what?" when you see their prices.


A specific data point: the (pretty good) Japanese toilet I have retails for about $2,600.00 US.

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/sumailab/ces9896px/?scid=af_pc_etc...


Neorest... pshhh. Time to upgrade, Mason!

The Satis is controlled by your smartphone (which you have to admit you'll probably already have in your hand anyway) so you don't have to touch that filthy control panel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO8LutKUTO4

(also shows an animation of the sprayer thingy)


Yup - and I think it's overpriced. If it was a consumers' market this would be way cheaper, but in Japan it's very much a B2B thing, therefore you don't get good prices if you want to buy your own.


YC company to make a self-powered washing toilet (maybe using the water flow to turn a generator?)


Or you can just buy direct from Amazon for $400-1000:

http://www.amazon.com/Toto-SW574-01-Washlet-Seat-Elongated/d...


I don't eat with my ..., just sayin'. But it's fine with me if you want to wash it.


So you don't shower then? Just hand-washing?


That fact that people shower, usually daily, is an argument that bidets aren't necessary.


Excuse me?


You don't eat with any part of your body except your hand so why wash any of them either?


Okay, now I understand. Good point. I wash my hands more frequently, because I eat with them, and I sometimes wash my body including ....


Do you use soap to wash your hands? or just rinse them off with water (especially if you happened to get a little on you)?

Do you then pick up your chicken wings or pork ribs with your butt cheeks and stick them into your mouth, proceeding to lick off the excess sauce/grease?

I have just demonstrated why your example has a complete lack of logic or value.

FWIW, I use a baby wipe. This uses less water and about the same amount of paper. it actually does a little better job, is quicker and far more economical. My toilet will last 40 years with about 10% of the purchase and maintenance costs. I also carry wipes around to use in public restrooms so while you may get clean at home, I get clean on the road as well.

I mainly do this because I have itching/chapping issues if I don't.


I find health faucets http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower quite effective, except that one time it went terribly wrong.

These are essentially telephone showers installed next to the toilet. You switch them on using a valve/trigger and then manually direct the fire. Simple, cheap and no fuss.

This little guy, however, turned out to be a closet fire hose. It pretty much went from 0 to 1000 gallons per sec in an instant and just wouldn't let up, the valve was stuck. The extension cord was twisting and coiling around like crazy with the released pressure, the shower head was going at full blast in my hand, initially directed at my rear, it was continuously pushing my hand away from anything that I was trying to point it to, it give me a visceral understanding of how jet engines work.

Working out a sequence of operations in my head to get out of such a situation while caught in a compromised and inflexible position, with only one hand free, was quite a challenge. I am not quite sure if I should be thankful that it wasnt autonomously powered and directed.

My first Japanese toilet experience happened @ Google (I was interning there at that time). When the water touched the derriere, it made me flinch and jump with surprise, as I wasnt quite sure what to expect, this was several years ago and Japanese toilets were still an unfamiliar opbject to me. And it really tickles the shit out of you ! (no pun intended) I guess there are ways to choose between a laminar and degrees of non laminar flow (all those controls must be for something), I would expect the former to be somewhat less flinch inducing.


This is one of those things that long-time expats that live in Japan often take back with them when they leave. Another is the practice of removing your (utterly filthy, inevitably) outdoor shoes when you enter the house.

I read Shogun as a kid (great book, for a little kid) and going back home to the USA and using the toilet there always reminds me of the scenes where the European sailors that shipwrecked in Japan sit around scratching their fleas and scoffing at the Japs' grotesque habit of bathing every day... gross


Canadians don't wear their shoes indoors either. Because of tracking melting snow indoors (so the habit sticks any other time), or the less comfortable shoes due to such weather, and probably because homes in colder climates are heated a little better, so shoes get uncomfortably hot.

But it just makes sense, even in dry summer weather. Or is it blasting AC that makes shoes necessary?


This was one of the things that took me by surprise in Canada. At home I would do it if someone asked me but in Canada even the cable guy and the construction guy removed their shoes as soon as they entered without being asked. Surprising considering they were also going in and out to their van and had to put the shoes on/off repeatedly.


> the European sailors that shipwrecked in Japan sit around scratching their fleas and scoffing at the Japs' grotesque habit of bathing every day... gross

Well on a ship you certainly can't wash yourself every day. And even in Europe, there was a lack of running water to wash yourself as often as you wanted. Japan has tons of rivers everywhere and is one of the richest country in terms of river water - and you can add onsen (hot springs) on top of that which provides free warm water to those living nearby. It's easy to criticize people of old, but they lived in very different conditions than we do, and Japanese had as much water as they wanted hence they developed that everyday washing culture.

Yet, Japan is actually importing water from other countries because they can't even meet their needs anymore in water supply - so the Japan model is not sustainable if you think about it this way. The consumption of water is among the highest worldwide (not just for bathing, but also washing clothes etc...) so it you applied the same model everywhere else you'd run out of water very fast in most countries.


Water consumption by agriculture and industry dwarfs that for personal use. Stats for Japan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_...


> Water consumption by agriculture and industry dwarfs that for personal use.

Yeah, but Japan does not need to make their own crops. It's very much a policy that can debated. Surfaces for agriculture in Japan are very well, mainly composed of small-time farmers, and that kind of activity only exists because it's heavily subsidized by the government, and the country applies huge tariffs and trade protections to prevent importing food from other countries around (at the expense of Japanese taxpayers and consumers).


Neglecting your domestic agriculture industry kind of sucks if war comes around or some other problem with imports arises, since it takes awhile to regrow your capacity to replace imports (and everyone starves in the meantime).

Food security is worth some subsidies, at least, just as a back up in case there is a problem with trade.


> Neglecting your domestic agriculture industry kind of sucks if war comes around or some other problem with imports arises,

If war comes around, ANYWAY a country like Japan will be f*ed to sustain its agriculture, with no access to commodities from outside and energy resources like petrol, fertilizers and so on. It is in the best interest of countries like Japan to sustain peace with neighboring countries and have strong trade ties with multiple partners so that a crisis with a single one would not cut off their supplies entirely.

> Food security is worth some subsidies, at least, just as a back up in case there is a problem with trade.

I disagree, because the cost of closing your borders is way, way higher than embracing global trade and benefiting from commodities that can be produced more efficiently and cheaply in other countries, even in the remote case of conflict. And if at all, this should be a choice made by the consumer, not by the government.


Japan and Germany are mainly in such a position because they lost a war - their territory would look very different otherwise. That doesn't mean that in (currently still very hypothetical) case of war, they wouldn't try to gain us much territory as quickly as possible - it would basically be a necessity. On the other hand, (potential) nuclear warfare has pretty much changed the game. It seems to me 'warfare' between industrialized nations is now everything about cold wars and alliances with nuclear capable countries. In case of Japan, food will never be a problem as long as they keep being allied to the US.


> because the cost of closing your borders is way, way higher than embracing global trade and benefiting from commodities

You can keep your borders open while still maintaining some essential capacities...like GROWING FOOD. Sure, you can import, but its up there with weapon/defense production in what you probably shouldn't outsource completely to your potential enemies or allies who are further away than your enemies (China...cough...).


The whole "europeans were dirty" thing is apocryphal. European towns were loaded with heated public baths that got plenty of use, just like in Asia.

There was a phenomenon that the public baths became associated with the spread of plague and syphilis when those diseases reached Europe (because they were associated) and usage declined. This has somehow done whisper-down-the-lane into the idea that Europeans were filthy.


If you remove your shoes outside and walk barefoot, you're just sharing the sweat, dirt & germs of your foot with everyone else at home & guests. You'll probably take that to bed with you and sometimes sleep on it. If you must leave your shoes outside, wear an 'inside-only' slippers.


I take my shoes off right after I walk in the door of my apartment. It's not for cleanliness or anything as much as it is just I like fuzzy squishy slippers compared to whatever shoes I may have been wearing that day that need to be aired or dried out or whatever they need.

Barefoot or not your feet are dirty, the shoes are a different kind of dirty, and there's other stuff on the floor too (like in my instance, I really need to get a roomba because my cat sheds all over the place). So whatever.

I'm pretty amazed guests will take their shoes off because everyone that lives here does, like this is what happened when a whole bunch of people came over to my place after my wedding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chix0r/13618218504/


You keep your socks on so that's not really an issue. I personally don't let anyone wear shoes in our house, I don't know what they've stepped on so I don't want them dragging anything over the floors and carpets.


Socks doesn't fix the problem completely. Unfortunately, visitors don't like being told that they can keep the socks on while walking on the carpet, but if they are to sit on the bed or put the feet up on the couch, they should take it off.

Don't even feel like discussing how clean are fresh are everyone's socks.


I wouldn't tell them to ever take their socks off, the only rule in our house is no shoes in the house.

Agree socks might not be 100% clean but you have to draw the line somewhere, and the bottom of a sock is bound to be cleaner than the bottom of a shoe.


Just provide your guests slippers or house shoes.

In central Europe it's common to have a special room called checkroom/garderobe next to your main door where you store several pairs of guest slippers.


Never met any Americans/westerners/etc who wear shoes in the house. They all walk barefoot.



It is actually a really strange thing. There seems to be pockets of people in various countries that either wear shoes inside or not but can't imagine doing the opposite and assumes everybody in their city/state/country is like them.

Interesting point: You also never see people on TV shows and movies taking their shoes off when they go to a house but I imagine this might be mainly due to the show not wanting to break up the action.



The question is: do you often see people taking their shoes off when they go to a house on Japanese TV shows and movies?


Yes, you do. It would be weird enough not to that it would jar the suspension of disbelief.


In Greek shows, everyone wears their shoes in the house, even though nobody in Greece actually does. We've accepted it as "one of the things they do on TV", but every Greek home has a bunch of slippers you can wear near the door.


That is amazing to me. In Minneapolis, everyone requires you to remove shoes before entering the house proper. Maybe it's the snow ... of which we are currently in the process of getting about 12" tonight :-/


Yeah, grew up in Minneapolis and most everyone removes their shoes, especially during the winter as it would create a complete mess if you didn't.

During the rest of the year, it depends a little bit on the residence. I never cared if someone kept their shoes on in the junky apartments I lived in during college, but if it were my parent's well-kept house for example, I'd consider it rude to keep them on.


Ditto. Even though I'm renting I have two runners so that I can absolutely cover the floor from the door to the coat closet. The boots (and shoes) don't leave the rug.

One of my friends has such high carpet and a close to the floor door that they can't have a rug immediately inside their unit. They contrived a mini parkour course to safely enter. You'd have to hop from the common hallway to a rug 2ft in and then to another one 2ft further, all in the name of etiquette and not wearing shoes "inside".


Don't know where you live but removing shoes is uncommon practice in my experience.


Especially in rural areas, where I would say 9 out of 10 people leave their shoes on inside the house.


Really? Wouldn't it make even more sense to remove shoes if you live in a rural area where you are more likely to be stomping through mud.


really... I don't get it now but it made sense when I went to visit my family.

Now that I live in Japan, I can say that it is really weird when I go back home. I usually take my shoes off and every now and then I step in a wet foot print from someone who just came inside from the rain and really wonder why it is like that.


In India, you buy separate rubber slippers/American beach slippers (2$) for the washroom, and a separate one for the house. We don't really stress our feet with closed shoes inside the house. No one's watching you anyway.

Only winters, is the in-house rubber slippers (not the washroom ones) are changed with warm slippers.


I've yet to visit a house in India where people have separate slippers for washroom & house. Strange.


The reason might be same as in the case of Japanese culture. Though its standard practice to excuse yourself, while entering a room or leaving it. You would meet a lot of people who just don't follow that.

Besides, you never know what you will learn next. Stay hungry :)


Americans don't say "beach slippers". Sandals or flip flops.


A few years ago we had to call an ambulance for a medical emergency for a family member (in Tokyo). When the ambulance came, all three EMT workers dutifully slipped their shoes off as they came in. They all had old sneakers so loosely laced that they were basically slippers.

Slip-on shoes are basically a must-have thing in Japan.


Mmm, reading that now actually. I'm enjoying it, and I could easily see that if I was younger I'd be enamored by it.


When I first came to Thailand, I was appalled when one of my friends told me the pistol nozzle (like we use in the US for doing dishes) next to every Thai toilet[1] was for spraying yourself after using the bathroom.

This was disgusting to me at first.

Echoing a few other comments, I feel like a bidet is something you have to experience yourself before you trust it. Once you do though, I think you are forever changed.

On my last trip back to the states, I remember feeling perpetually disgusted that all I had to clean myself with was paper. It's disgusting - barbaric even... you're just smearing waste all over yourself.

If you don't feel like spending the money to install a Japanese bidet, a Thai "bum gun" might be a more wallet-friendly option.

[1] - http://thatluckyboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/bum_gun_t...


Those are ubiquitous in Northern Europe as well—yes, including all public bathrooms.


Are you sure about Northern Europe? I live in Sweden and I haven't encountered anything like that here. (They are common in Finland, though)


Same situation for me in Cambodia. It wasn't until I ran out of toilet paper one time that I caved in and tried the "bum gun". Now it's my preference for sure, cleaner and quicker too.


One thing I haven't really understood is why exactly is a Indian toilet seat seen as inferior to the English toilet seat.

- True that the English seat occupies less space, but its adoption has not always been based on space savings.

- True that sitting appears more gentleman like, rather than sitting half subtended in air, but hey who is watching?

- True that elderly find the english version easier to use because of the supporting nature of the seat, but its not a hard rule. A hybrid of both (Anglo-Indian) seat is more suited to them, and ailing patients.

- The Indian version is more hygienic, as no part of your body directly touches any part of the seat. Besides superior genital cleanliness over time due to wider leg positions.

- The Indian version is decisively easier to clean/maintain compared to the English version.

- Moreover the Indian version, is more suited to over-weight people than a English version.

- And relatively, due to its production in labor intensive market such as India/China, the Indian version is cost-efficient, suited for developing nations, who still have a fairly large population that needs proper sanitation structures.


- Plus squatting is a better posture for properly emptying yourself.

Although sitting for longer than 5 minutes is painful and gets worse with age.


I had a good book titled 'Humanure' that stated that the sitting posture is quite unnatural and drop toilets or rather throne-less were better for us.

At university (UK) I couldn't work out why some toilets had shit all over them, like people just evacuated all over the seats. I thought: what animals/dirty tricksters! After reading that book I realised that it was non-uk students who were struggling with the UK style toilets.

Some suggest standing on the throne as a compromise, but it's a bit precarious, and it's not nice if you miss the target.

I prefer squat toilets myself, as long as they are kept clean.


Yeah, that drawback can be seen as a JUST motivation for not taking your time in the toilet always. Even 5 minutes saved one time, is equal to 10-15 minutes everyday. 70-100 minutes a week and around 60-90 hours a year to put that into perspective.


I find my time on the toilet quite productive, it's usually when I have Eureka moments.


I figured so, occasionally it is the same for me. But I didn't say everyone should be saving time.


For some, it's not an option.


Another thing that gets overlooked is the built-in faucet at the top to rinse off hands such that every tank of water gets used twice:

http://demenglog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/toilet-seat-...


And another thing that gets overlooked is that the toilet is always in a separate room from the rest of the bathroom (washbasin and tub). It seems weird at first that you have to go down the hall into a phonebooth-sized compartment to do your business. But then you go back to visit family in America and can't stop noticing that you poop 3 feet away from where you brush your teeth...


Have you ever tried a Chinese shower that is combined with a squat toilet? You have to be careful to not walk into the toilet when you are showering.


I actually have that in my apartment in SF. It may be because it's a three bedroom place with only one bath though. It's nice because someone can use the toilet while the shower is in use, but then you have to walk to the kitchen to wash your hands....wish someone had the foresight to add the faucet-top toilet ;)


why not add it yourself?


If you're thinking about buying one of these, I can highly recommend the Toto S300e (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009IJ2LM4) or, if you live in Asia, the TCF4722CS (http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=23047236820).

These 'washlet' toilet seats can be retro-fitted to normal toilets. It's really easy as long as the flush-water inlet to your toilet has a standard fitting. Oh, and assuming you have a suitable power socket near the toilet. The manual recommends a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter) socket.


Or if you can't afford a 1000 dollar heated/programmable washlet, you can get a no frills cold water attachment for 35 dollars on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001KKRCFA/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=...

I have a similar one and it works great (though it's not as luxuroius as a Toto).


You don't need to go Toto. There are Korean companies that make bidets that (in my opinion) are just as good, but are more affordable.

Bio Bidet is one of them (BB1000). Stateside, there's Brondell (I recommend the Swash1000) but my preference is for Bio Bidet.


There are also cheaper compromises that only replace the toilet lid instead of the entire toilet and without requiring a hot water line. I bought this version last year for $250 but it's $350 now:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005XNW1Q0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...


"There are also cheaper compromises that only replace the toilet lid instead of the entire toilet and without requiring a hot water line."

Both the models I recommended are of this type (they are just a seat, and they don't require a hot water line).

I considered the model you recommended. The main reason I went for the higher-priced models is that they are higher-power, and can heat the incoming water in real-time. The more inexpensive Toto models are lower power, but compensate by having a built-in tank to store water. I guessed (but did not verify) that, on occasion, the tank could run out of hot water before I was done.

Does the tank on the B100 always have enough hot water for you?


> Does the tank on the B100 always have enough hot water for you?

Yup, it was enough for my pregnant wife when she was staying at home.


I remember my first visit to a Japanese toilet. I noticed all the buttons after I finished my business and stood up.

Wow! What do these do? I bent over the toilet bowl and pushed a button at random...


All Japanese models have a pressure sensor built into the seat so that no water comes out unless someone is actually sitting on the toilet.


That was decidedly not the case when I first visited Japan in 2001. The jet of water that hit the door to the bathroom was quite wet by the time I figured out how to shut the toilet off.


A bidet in a London hotel around 2003 managed to hit me in the eye. I was a clear metre from the bowl. A mistake you make once and then not again!


Deedee?


"what does this big red pushy button do" :P


I was about to sleep but definitely had to add my contribution to bum washing. Most Indian toilets have a water faucet next to your seat. You always wash with water using your left hand(Right one is reserved for more auspicious occasions like eating food or shaking hands). I still remember the horror of my first trip to US and finding that you have to use rough sheets of paper to essentially scrath it off. But on the flip side, toilets in India are always damp and dirty with filthy cess pools of mold and .... God help you if you ever have to use a public toilet in India.


You will probably hate me for giving some graphic details but I had never used Toilet paper for the first 21 years of my life.(I am 22 BTW). I didn't even use a bidet. Just my left hand and water. I know this might be considered very disgusting but it is very common from where I am.


I'm curious: Did you first try using toilet paper in another country/region, or it something that has recently been introduced to where you grew up?


I still don't use toilet paper. I used one when I had access to it(in a hotel). I knew toilet paper existed as once when I saw it in movies or read about it.


Can I inquire as to where you grew up? I've genuinely never heard of anyone using just their hand, but I suppose it makes sense for poorer parts of the world. (no offense intended whatsoever)


India. No offense taken. FWIW, I can afford toilet paper. I just don't use it as I am habituated to using my hand. In case you are wondering, I can guarantee that the number of people who use their hand to clean their bottoms is much more than the combined population of USA.


Sorry to sound 'negative', but...

I don't know if this is the way the future is going to pan out - water is an increasingly scarce resource and, as it is, we waste a gallon or so of water to lift one's leavings up and over the u-bend.

Of all people Bill Gates is probably the expert on what toilets will really be like in the future, allegedly water, toilets, sanitation and health is something he is most interested in.

Personally, although I am not into 'standing desks' I am into 'standing toilets', as in the humble urinal. One's aim is easier and there is no seat to remember to put down for the next user. Less water is wasted. I would want one at home so as to avoid 'female complaints' regarding the state of things. Ideally the outflow from the adjacent sink would keep it clean so water wastage really would be minimal. It would be in a room of its own, a very small room with no need for anyone female to ever enter it.

I recently replaced an extractor fan in a bathroom. I thought that a quiet fan would be preferable and I was disappointed with the noise made. However, then I realised the real purpose of the fan, it is to make noise to disguise the sound of one leaving one's leavings. I believe that the Japanese toilets have some of this functionality too. Can anyone confirm that?


I suppose it depends on where you live. If you live in Arizona it might end up being an issue due to the energy cost of processing the water for reuse. However, if you live in Chicago you aren't going to have a shortage of water anytime soon.

I don't really get these water shortage scares people talk about. I can see how it is an issue in remote/poor areas around the world, but a country like the US has nothing to worry about. If fresh water reserves get low we can always desalinate seawater. There are engineering challenges and energy costs to do that, but both are solvable issues. No one is going to die from thirst.


I think a large part of the problem is that it's a "tragedy of the commons" situation. We won't see a huge investment in better recycling and desalinization until it's absolutely required, which would mean that we've already destroyed some aquifers permanently, in some places causing entire aquifers to become unrecoverable [0].

No one is going to die from thirst? Maybe. But a lot of the water loss is in the food-producing middle of the country. People are already starving in the US, and increased food prices will only exacerbate the situation. [1]

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer#Subsidence (sections subsidence, saltwater intrusion, and salination)

[1] https://water.usgs.gov/edu/gwdepletion.html


I guess if you have your liquid waste contained within closed loop then you can get around drought issues.

Making black water potable I'd guess uses more energy and resources than recycling grey. I bet a victorian sewage system couldn't work without gallons of water either. An alternative might be to defacate in our gardens if we have them.

Piss by itself isn't that harmful, you can use it on the garden. I piss frequently into a watering can.


A lot of the Japanese toilets have water saving mechanisms where the water that fills the toilet is used for a small sink on the top of the toilet to wash your hands.

I agree that there are more ways that we should be conserving water, and we are beginning to see more toilets with a small or large flush function (which almost all Japanese toilets have as well).

As for your question about the noise function in Japanese toilets, fancy bathrooms sometimes have a noise function to cover up the noise of using the bathroom. Most normally it is a recording of a toilet flushing, but some other more "luxurious" ones have little jingles that play when you hit a button.


In the spirit of too much information that is this thread. I was given a lavette bottle after giving birth, and I've continued using it quite often.

http://www.amazon.com/Lavette-Bottle-Perineal-Irrigation-DYN...

It's an even cheaper alternative to the cold water attachment, it's portable, and you can fill it with warm water.


This seems interesting. It looks like a regular sports bottle. The comments on that item suggest there are more and smaller holes than a single large opening, for a better flow for this application. Is that the only difference?

How does one use it? Is there a straw inside that draws from the bottom of the bottle? Do you need to position it upright, or upside down?

These two seem more natural to use, If you didn't have your bottle already, would one of these be more interesting?

http://www.amazon.com/Hygienna-Solo-Portable-Cleaning-Soluti... http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Bidet-BB-20-Portable/dp/B004IW5IT...


The number, shape, and size of holes seem well suited for the bottle's purpose. There's no straw, but you can hold it upright or upside down as long as it's not close to empty.

I think I would buy the same one I have over one of those. For this application, I think I value simplicity.

Women might have slightly different requirements for this than men too.


Japanese (and increasingly Korean) toilets are amazing. I love visiting my in-laws and just using their toilets and feeling unbelievably civilized.

My wife, refuses to get one, or even the fancy seat attachments because...tbh...they're freaking expensive. I can basically refit all the toilets in my house for less than the discount price for a single seat...and that's not including the cost of the electrician to put a power source near just one of my toilets.

There's also lots of research in her home country that women shouldn't use the bidets in these toilets for various reasons particular to their anatomy.

To compare, a Glacier Bay 2-piece high efficiency dual flush elongated toilet is <$100 at my local home depot.

Toto Washlet S350e seat with heated seat and warm water bidet is $1,700. I frequently see cheaper Korean versions at my local Asian Market for $800-1200. I saw one at Costco for $650 the other day.

If they want to penetrate the market, they need to drop the price significantly, corner the market, then start cranking the price up faster than inflation.


In case anyone was curious, ビデ is read as "bidet" (i.e. squirt water up your ass).

This among the many reasons why it's helpful to at least learn to read kana before visiting, as it makes a lot of things easier--there are an awful lot of English words written in kana that you can decipher (well, French in this particular case, but you get the point I hope).


Actually bidet button is usually for women, I wouldn't advise pressing it unless you are one, or you will get a blast of water significantly forward of the desired target. おしり(oshiri) is the button thats useful to both sexes.


Maybe the hold traditional toilets have on us is another example of the triumph of "worse is better."

Whatever else you want to say about them, they are closer to the UNIX tradition than Japanese toilets.


Japanese baths are great, too - you can wash your body before getting into the tub, so you're not stewing in your own filth.


In Iceland you are required to wash before entering a swimming pool. you're likely to be stopped by an employee if you don't


Toto makes travel washlets. Imagining travel without one is like trying to remember how we used to code before Google and Stackoverflow: yes we did it, for sure, but I just can't fathom how. It's also a relatively cheap and easy way to get acquianted with this nice facet of civilization. There are other travel washlets, not made by Toto, skip those. Search eBay for toto travel washlet, less than $100 shipped.

I had a particularly bad day at a London client onsite and out of sheer desperation Googled for travel washlet (I have one normal at home and was missing it badly), not that I had any idea how you would even construct one but lo and behold, there it is.


I would imagine peri bottles (or close enough, any kind of squeeze bottle) would do something similar in a pinch. I've only heard girlfriends with kids rave about them since it's usually only used after pregnancy, but (to be a bit TMI) pre-IUD years when I had periods, travel squeeze bottles totally saved the day for when wet wipes felt inadequate and I couldn't easily shower.


Make sure you flush before you hit the "blow hot air" button. :/


I wonder what the effect on overall hygiene is? I wash my hands after every bowl movement, in total (shower, etc) I wash them every 5 hours. Will people now wash their hands less?


The future? What about the past?

Washing your butt so it's clean = yeah, that's pretty cool.

Eating the right food (and being lucky to have good digestion) so that normally the paper you wipe with comes up white = priceless.

Of course you'll have to wash your hands, but still, we're not hardwired to make a mess every time we defecate. Maybe you could say that's excessive smoke indicating the engine isn't running right. Japanese toilets aren't a fix, they're a workaround.


By the way "bidet" is a french word in the first place and it has nothing to do with washing your arse :) Bidets are small bathtubs-shaped vessels where you actually wash your feet. The reason they existed is because in the past people didn't wash their whole body every single day, and instead they cleaned at least the most dirty / odorant parts of their bodies this way, more often.


Actually, the "bidet" is an invention from the early 1700s that was specifically designed to wash intimate parts. The etymology of the word indicates that the bidet is something one rides, by analogy with a small horse.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bidet http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_(meuble)


FWIW this was one of the 'tour questions' on Google which had (at least when I was there) several bathrooms equipped with washlets. It really is a nice thing, and one of the engineers put a WattsUp meter on one to see if it was wasting power (answer quite economical). Of course in California using water to wash yourself in a drought is probably the wrong thing to do ...


I tried, liked and missed Japanese toilets. I certainly wasn't going to be installing a $1000 Toto in my house, but I waited too long to take a chance on a cheap bidet. For <$50 you can get a bidet on Amazon which, though little more than a valve and a spout, works pretty well.


$25 and has been good enough for me. No warm water line, but you can spend $20 more for one that has that if you care.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TPGPUW/


Questions, I couldn't find an answer to:

How do you make sure that the water doesn't merely distribute your feces all over your butt?

How do women prevent that feces get sprayed onto or even into their vagina, since the water seems to be coming from the rear side of the toilet?


On reading that it seems like you use paper still. I didnt realise this. Do you use the normal paper before or after the water? Seems like after water and drying to me, but potentially much less?

Also, does it do away with the need for women wiping after a pee?


Never been to Japan, but from description its the same type of toilets they have in South Korea. Yeah, feel much cleaner, I wonder how is it hard to get same setup in US


This guy uses the bidet before wiping? Whenever I'm in Japan I wipe before bidet, that way at least the initial blast of water doesn't spread too much gunk.


The most important thing to make Japanese office life happy is to provide a latest Japanese toilets. They do care about it a lot!


[deleted]


The water is sprayed from a wand. The wand automatically retracts into itself when not in use. When retracting and/or expanding, it washes itself. You never touch the want, and it's not expanded when you're doing your business, only afterwards when you turn on the spray.


This is a solution for a private bathroom, not a public one. Most public toilets in Japan are not these models.


I have one. I'll never go back.


"disinterested"

>:(




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