Look at Kent's eight bullet points: half of them are unrelated to the DD part of TDD. Coming from a man who should know the difference between having automated tests for your software and partaking in test-driven design, I must assume that he had a good reason for conflating the two.
Hacker News is not the audience for this post.
Kent Beck is doing damage control.
DHH lives in a developer community that has adopted unit tests to the point of feeling ashamed about untested code---testing is more than just a practice, it's a culture.
Kent Beck lives in a world where the mere existence of unit tests is a champagne-worthy surprise.
There are people out there who are not yet convinced of the benefits of tests, let alone test-first or test-driven design. Kent Beck is a missionary, bringing them the gospel of automated testing. Can you imagine the impact that a piece like DHH's would have on his efforts ?
A developer with an incomplete understanding of software tests, reading a post by a big-shot recognizable name that one would expect (based on the Rails community's love for testing) to be a major proponent of tests, would take it as "Tests are actually a bad idea !"
This is not what DHH said. There is probably no one among us here who would understand it this way, and most experienced folks would just shake their heads at the ongoing back-and-forth and resume their position of "TDD is a tool in my toolbox, and I use it whenever it helps me."
Kent Beck wrote a piece for the lost soul who doesn't know the difference between TDD and automated testing, and who might become confused after reading DHH's opinion. This is no time for subtlety, for paying notice to the differences between testing methodologies, or for polite agreement with at least some parts of the "opposing" piece.
Let David work to bring the Rails community back from the "test all the things!" extremities it might have reached, let Kent work to bring the unenlightened masses out of the "tests are useless!" darkness wherein they have dwelt for so long, and let us accept that if we truly have the capacity to criticize what those two are saying, then they probably weren't talking to us in the first place.
Hacker News is not the audience for this post.
Kent Beck is doing damage control.
DHH lives in a developer community that has adopted unit tests to the point of feeling ashamed about untested code---testing is more than just a practice, it's a culture.
Kent Beck lives in a world where the mere existence of unit tests is a champagne-worthy surprise.
There are people out there who are not yet convinced of the benefits of tests, let alone test-first or test-driven design. Kent Beck is a missionary, bringing them the gospel of automated testing. Can you imagine the impact that a piece like DHH's would have on his efforts ?
A developer with an incomplete understanding of software tests, reading a post by a big-shot recognizable name that one would expect (based on the Rails community's love for testing) to be a major proponent of tests, would take it as "Tests are actually a bad idea !"
This is not what DHH said. There is probably no one among us here who would understand it this way, and most experienced folks would just shake their heads at the ongoing back-and-forth and resume their position of "TDD is a tool in my toolbox, and I use it whenever it helps me."
Kent Beck wrote a piece for the lost soul who doesn't know the difference between TDD and automated testing, and who might become confused after reading DHH's opinion. This is no time for subtlety, for paying notice to the differences between testing methodologies, or for polite agreement with at least some parts of the "opposing" piece.
Let David work to bring the Rails community back from the "test all the things!" extremities it might have reached, let Kent work to bring the unenlightened masses out of the "tests are useless!" darkness wherein they have dwelt for so long, and let us accept that if we truly have the capacity to criticize what those two are saying, then they probably weren't talking to us in the first place.