The downtown is resurgent, and is certainly not a dump. Many of the suburbs are very affluent. There is a large area that is in very dire shape (which is, of course, the area that people focus on when they seek their ruin porn), but is no worse than it was 20 years ago, and in most cases is significantly better.
Detroit had been in decline for many, many decades. It hit bottom and is getting better.
"There is a large area that is in very dire shape... but is no worse than it was 20 years ago"
This is absolutely untrue. I live in Detroit and work with its property data on a daily basis. The physical state of the city has deteriorated significantly since the financial crisis of 2008-9.
The downtown that is resurgent encompasses 7.2 of 139 square miles. Most of the city has not bottomed out. People continue to leave, properties continue to burn, and the news of Detroit's resurgence remains greatly overstated.
Take a look here to see how Detroit has fared since 2008:
I agree with you. My father grew up in Detroit and I still have plenty of family there. What people don't understand is the scale of the problem and how far it has gone. I really can't see the situation changing unless Detroit either consolidates with some of its healthier suburbs or divests the massive amount of land that's currently draining its very limited resources. I don't think we can declare the city to be in rebound just because a kernel of affluence is reemerging. There's a looong way to go.
Those are interesting photos, but how do we know whether they are representative of an overall trend? Those locations seem to be selected manually to show houses in decay -- it's not a random sample, and it's probably not a representative sample.
Nobody doubts that there are decaying buildings in Detroit, but to see how Detroit has faired overall, you would need to look at the big picture, including properties that have been restored or rebuilt, but that weblog doesn't show that.
If you're having trouble relating to the numbers, here's a great episode of Parts Unknown that shows how bad Detroit is now, hosted by a guy who really likes Detroit. http://www.cnn.com/video/shows/anthony-bourdain-parts-unknow... (not so much the videos, but the text below.)
I suppose I do take a more macro level view, and have essentially written off many of the neighborhoods (what the banks and others should have done long ago). There are detached little islands of residents trying to make a stand, but -- as that blog shows -- they can't. Much of Detroit the urban area should be returned to nature and then, in a planned and considered fashion, built out again. To some degree this is happening, and it's interesting that many of the blog posts show houses in a very high level of disrepair, followed by an empty field: For the good of Detroit, the empty field is often a better state, and the bail-out Detroit should have gotten is billions to tear down houses and remediate lands that are long past the point of no return.
The resurgence does absolutely have to do with the sense of pride in the city, and the sense that it is a city for doing business, both required for the city to come back. Neither of those help houses neglected for decades on remote strips of perilous streets with no rational civic services.
They are also gated communities that have the worst "Fuck You, Got Mine" mentality. Mostly white and heavily racist, to the point where companies require their delivery-people who serve those areas to be white (because people in those neighborhoods won't open their doors for blacks).
Seriously, a very small part of the city core may be rebounding, but Detroit as a whole will remain a hell-hole for at least a decade.
"They are also gated communities that have the worst "Fuck You, Got Mine" mentality."
Oh, so what mentality would you like them to have? How about:
"Here, come on in, we missed you since the last riot!"
I'm completely not understanding this weird jump of yours where you go from "gated communities" to stereotyping such behavior as one that is due to a "Fuck You, Got Mine" attitude. Oh and it's mostly by racist white people, according to you.
Just let people be, and quit trying to meddle. It's really not rocket science. Why do you have to vilify people you don't like? If they were doing something truly bad, then you wouldn't need to vilify them by calling them racists or selfish.
I think, deep down, you know you have no argument. And you're simply fishing for approval by throwing around boogey-words that people are accustomed to reacting to in the way you want.
The answer to how the original person makes this leap is found in the "white flight" debate of the 1960s to 1980s. It's a point of reference that a lot of people on HN don't have (I do not, in any way, want to sound like I'm being demeaning or patronizing; it is an item for discussion, nothing more, and certainly not as an insult).
Having experienced it, and coming from a family that did, basically, just that, the "f-ck you I've got mine" is what drove a lot of that behavior. It could be more accurately expressed as "f-ck you guys, I'm out of here because I have the social, financial, and legal methods to do so," since a lot of the "good" neighborhoods had redlining practices that predated the mass exodus and, even though they became illegal, were still quietly, subtly enforced by real estate agents, mortgage brokers, and nearby property owners. A major symbol of white flight is the rise of the gated community. They gave a way to erect a literal barricade against the undesirables, regardless of skin color but always against "shady" characters.
The last problem is that white flight, and subsequent "I have money"-flight (again, regardless of skin color), essentially drained the urban cities like Detroit, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, and Chicago. Some of these are bouncing back--like Dallas--and some not so much. Areas we think of as "Chicago" are, in fact, separate legal municipalities propped up by the massive influx of wealth. The people who lived there commuted into the urban cores, generally on highways paid for on the backs of the people left in the urban areas, to jobs that contribute little to the city where they are located, and then fled back to their quiet suburb where they could enjoy "having theirs."
Is there anything, individually, wrong with what they did? Absolutely not. Those who "fled" took the opportunities available to do them and did so out of an interest of self-worth. The whole point behind flinging "f-ck you, I got mine" as a derogatory remark is that it is half taking out frustrations on a societal dysfunction, half human nature.
I don't know about those other cities you mentioned, but Pittsburgh has not been "essentially drained" by "white flight" like you are suggesting here. Neighborhoods in Pittsburgh are very walkable and very vibrant. If anything hollowed out Pittsburgh, it was the decline of the steel and manufacturing industries in the area. But Pittsburgh has somewhat rebounded with medical and technology industries.
I used to live in Pittsburgh and commute out to a small town outside the city limits. I enjoyed being near my friends and everything the city had to offer, but I didn't resent people who lived outside the city limits.
Highways aren't "paid for on the backs of the people left in the urban areas." They're paid for out of gasoline taxes. We might be better off with more mass transit, but that's kind of a different discussion.
When I was in downtown Detroit a few years ago, I did notice a distinct lack of public transit options. But it is bitterly cold in Detroit, and it is difficult to imagine the kind of cafe culture taking root there that you see in other places. I had trouble going outside because I had not brought a ski mask, and there was a stiff breeze coming off the lake and a subzero temperature that day. I also remember there being a lot of churches with bars on the windows, like prisons. I don't know what was up with that-- I guess it's an anti-riot measure?
I hope they succeed in revitalizing the area... it is a shame how far it has fallen since the glory days.
Well, I'd be more inclined to believe it if we had some sort of reference to it. I couldn't even find anything using casual searches. So I'd say it very well is something that's made up and/or propagated by people that seek to discredit gated communities. You can't just pass off second-hand "rumours" as facts. Even if it's something that's "commonly known", we'd be doing a disservice to those that live in gated communities that aren't racist at all.
The suburbs being affluent does nothing to alleviate the problems that Detroit faces, which are largely having to do with a lack of taxes, because those suburbs don't increase the tax base of Detroit itself.
They're the people fleeing the problems of Detroit and leaving it to burn while they watch from next door.
Detroit had been in decline for many, many decades. It hit bottom and is getting better.