Without finishing, but just reacting to her _reacting_ to his refusal to admit an "office crush", to me, uneducated in this subject:
what is a crush, an affection about one thing about someone? many things? i might crush on many people, but i'm aware that these are just infatuations with a new thing. it happens with books and hobbies and etc, too
so he had a cool coworker of the opposite sex. is there a "crush scale"? maybe you round down if the crush doesn't entertain future-fantasies, heh
Yup. I've long said things somewhat similar to my wife. I expect her and I to both not only be attracted to other people, but to form bonds that if followed could ruin our relationship.
It's imo in human nature, and perfectly valid. If you are in a monogamous relationship which you wish to retain i think you need to be aware of this. To internalize ones feelings and be aware when it's heading towards a threshold, and put in the work to prevent it from damaging your relationship if its worth fighting for.
I've long thought that modern society fails to raise our children to self analyze. Tools to develop healthy mental habits do not seem discussed, let alone taught. So in this case people naturally "crush" on passers-by who perhaps on paper shouldn't ruin their primary relationship... but when left unchecked, do.
Relationships need care, protection even. Sometimes, perhaps often, from your own self.
I think part of the problem is people being raised to believe that love, in the biochemical sense, is the most important part of a relationship. Hence when they start feeling similar feelings for others, their relationship can weaken. But a relationship can be about so much more than just the biochemical side: two people, with similar goals and values, working together to build a better life for themselves and their children, and to help each-other achieve their dreams.
In that sense, the time spent building a relationship, time invested in growing trust, understanding and shared experiences, looks like building a business. And abandoning it just for biochemical experience with another looks like somebody with a successful five year old startup abandoning it to start another one because the code was written in Go and they've discovered they really love writing Elixir.
I think you and I are in agreement, my point was that our job is about being aware of where those bonds could exist, and where concern is warranted.
The exact ___location of the line depends on the individuals and the relationship i'd imagine.
Mine is pretty far back. I wear my heart on my sleeve (is that the right usage of that term?) and form bonds quite easily. Yet, i'm intensely devoted for various reasons - so i keep the opposite gender at a respectable distance.
Even if your goal is to be monogamus then you should be aware that humans form relationships a bit easier than we like to believe, and understanding infatuation goes a long ways to heading off that behavior when it becomes inappropriate to your situation.
Combined with being unusual and not wired as everyone else, I take a different tact by accepting human nature and opening up the possibilities. From a young age, it became apparent that I did't experience jealousy in relation to a deep interest having close friends including ex's or infatuation clicks with other people. Not some sort of low self-worth thing, but the opposite. Therefore, mutually open relationships work better for me to dispense with dishonesty and limitations based on insecurities. Not in my face if it's with a dude, don't get pregnant, or diseases, and I don't care. Heck, I think it's extremely cute when a bi/pan woman I'm seeing hits on another woman, even right in front of me. Also, it's exhilarating when she feeds me her cool friends like proverbial bow-wrapped gifts, such as a row of lined-up puppy-dog eyes looking up as who will be chosen next. This makes her a potential keeper#.
Partner guarding seems like a lot of pointless energy expended based on insecurity; one of my aims in relationship(s) is to constantly improve to remain the highest-value around without resorting to possessive capture. Plus, it's better to let people move freely and self-select voluntarily, rather than give them ultimatums or threatening "if you ever" speeches.
I look at importance of relationships (love/friendship) based on the amount and sustainment of attention, mutual care, support, and trust. Sex is just sex to me without deeper affinity and common interests; a shared, social activity that is delightful without being black-and-white all-meaningful. It's also important to be sure other participants are truly on this same wavelength so that they don't end-up regretful or are otherwise left worse than before.
In conclusion: open works best for me, with a consideration for Mff or Mfff poly where f are pan/bi. I think Mfff tetrad of ever-reconfiguring pairs is more stable because there's no third-wheel issue. And all disagreements must be followed by bedroom activities, and stalemate disputes are resolved by last one who gets there wins.
> Combined with being unusual and not wired as everyone else
From this line, I already knew where this comment was going. It's oddly familiar.
> Partner guarding seems like a lot of pointless energy expended based on insecurity
And there it is. Counterpoint: No, it's not; you're just, as you said yourself, different. For the vast majority of people it is neither pointless nor is it born out of insecurity.
The odd thing is that you start by acknowledging yourself as different, just to turn around and present these opinions as statements. It's not the first time I've seen it either with people explaining why they buy into polyamory.
> Plus, it's better to let people move freely and self-select voluntarily, rather than give them ultimatums or threatening "if you ever" speeches.
Wasn't aware that the only two choices were "not caring at all" and "giving ultimatums".
Speaking of "moving freely" and "not partner guarding":
> Not in my face if it's with a dude
... Right.
> with a consideration for Mff or Mfff poly where f are pan/bi. I think Mfff tetrad of ever-reconfiguring pairs is more stable because there's no third-wheel issue.
So the conclusion is that... You "discovered" polygyny. That's also familiar; reddit for instance is full of guys supposedly in that kind of arrangement, and many more others clearly wishing they were.
It's not new, many societies have tried it; most of those weren't big on women's rights, though. And a lot of it stemmed from, shall we say, "partner guarding"... against other males.
Then again, quite a few of the discussions I've had with self-declared polyamorous people were themselves women and I am not only strictly monogamous, but I'm also gay, so what do I know.
Small note here, I'm not a jealous person. From observation of others some innately are, but many seem to act so because they've picked up the idea that they're supposed to be. It's the done thing so that's what they do. I can't give a size but it seems a decent proportion of people do it.
The open relationship thing didn't/doesn't work for me, but I'm upvoting you because I think it's a little unfair you're being downvoted for your personal experience. I think some people may be downvoting you, though, because you seem to present yourself as "open" and yet it reads a bit as though your open relationships are more open for yourself than the women involved. No judgement from me, though: I also find that sort of 'open' arrangement easier to deal with. Probably all men do.
> Not in my face if it's with a dude, don't get pregnant, or diseases, and I don't care.
(I didn't miss this.) You may be very equally open; it's hard to tell from your comment. Congrats on having such an unusually low level of jealousy.
Exactly reflects my feelings. I discovered that mfff+ is what makes me sexually and emotionally excited, and that a lot of amazing women want to be in such relationships once they feel genuinely loved and cared for. And see how many other women are excited about exploring things along these lines.
The biggest turn-on for women is safety. Once women feel safe they don’t care about the fact that the man they are with also loves other women. Just like friends who are emotionally mature and secure do not care that you have multiple close friends.
speaks about not partner guarding and then says "Not in my face if it's with a dude," and is only open to m+f*n relationships lol - partner guarding lol
“Love is a verb. Love – the feeling – is the fruit of love the verb or our loving actions. So love her. Sacrifice. Listen to her. Empathize. Appreciate. Affirm her.”
I would obviously be upset if my wife cheated. But to me a one night stand with actual sex is less of a betrayal than months of texting, saying sweet things to each other, and establishing true emotional bonds without any physical element. Sex is something that happens, it’s an activity. Love is an emotion and using her time to love another person emotionally is much worse than a brief sexual act. My two cents.
"months of texting, saying sweet things to each other, and establishing true emotional bonds without any physical element" I do this with my non-romantic gender, where do you draw the line for betrayal?
If one can keep it in the open and it's everything alright between them as a couple it's alright. But if one keeps it hidden, dismisses the other and lies about the activity it's a betrayal. Although rules are a bit different for non-romantic gender, because in general this relationship will not replace the romantic one, it still may apply. If one opens up to their buddy and keeps distance with their partner, isn't it a reason for partner's concern?
Definitely, making a partner feel insecure is a cause for concern, but the amount it would be labelled a betrayal depends. Indeed, a friendly relationship with your romantic gender has a much higher chance of being seen the wrong way, and knowing how it would be perceived can certainly constitute betrayal
Depends on the person. In general American parlance you may “have a crush” as a teenager, and want to ask them to be your boyfriend/girlfriend. Some people use it to refer to someone that they have unexpressed desires for throughout their life.
Other people use the term similar to your usage where it is much more general. Communicative partners may say they have a crush on someone else with the implication that they would never act on it.
If she has real sociopathic tendencies, even grokking empathy on a purely intellectual level would be very real progress for her. (Perhaps the clearest feasible progress for someone with that condition - sociopaths tend to intuitively assume that everyone they meet is just as selfish and self-serving as they are, which makes them very poor negotiators.)
I'm not sure that she has those tendencies, though. She talks about having flat affect and about her sensation seeking in youth, but plenty of youths engage in mildly antisocial behavior (the brain doesn't fully develop until the mid-20s or so), and many sociopaths don't display flat affect - in fact, they may show rather volatile emotions, including angry jealousy triggered by perceived slights, which she apparently lacks.
what is a crush, an affection about one thing about someone? many things? i might crush on many people, but i'm aware that these are just infatuations with a new thing. it happens with books and hobbies and etc, too
so he had a cool coworker of the opposite sex. is there a "crush scale"? maybe you round down if the crush doesn't entertain future-fantasies, heh