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We're comparing two neighbourhoods. One has less deaths and less robberies. It is the one with nuclear power.

Chernobyl has done less damage and had less impact on those millions of people than the totally routine burning of coal. I grew up in a coal mining region; I fully expect more people suffer negative health outcomes when coal works as expected than in a Class 7 nuclear catastrophe. We just don't count the health impacts properly because it is too hard to prove cause and effect.

The overwhelming safety of the nuclear process makes the failures look bad, because we aren't used to nuclear plants producing detectable levels of ambient pollution.




> We just don't count the health impacts properly because it is too hard to prove cause and effect.

This also goes for nuclear.


The "too hard to prove cause" is for attributing individual cases. In any particularly case - just like with the link of smoking and lung cancer - it is impossible to say if lung problems were caused by coal plants.

Statistical estimates of the amounts of deaths and lung problems coal power plants cause, however, can be much more accurate. And they bespeak hundreds of thousands gruesome deaths from coal every year.


The WHO estimates that 4,200,000 people die every year from ambient air pollution. That’s one death every 7.5 seconds. That’s one Chernobyl death toll every 18 to 125 hours (depending on which estimate you’re looking at).

The argument about land being uninhabitable is equally silly, because land permanently submerged in the ocean tends to be uninhabitable as well.

The perception of the risks associated with nuclear is so dramatically misaligned with reality. The only conclusion I can possibly draw is that anybody who is anti-nuclear can’t possibly be taking climate change seriously.


I’m not saying that nuclear is worse than coal (I don’t think so), but only that there are negative effects beyond death and that we should take them into account.

The things we compare are nuclear and renewables. The consensus is already pretty clear that coal is on its way out. Which I think we all can agree on is a good thing.


Accidents are bad but left-overs are even worse. I wish people would think more about long-term problems with spent fuel rods. I don't think that burying them is a viable solution as the Asse mine in Germany shows.

https://www.dw.com/en/nuclear-waste-in-disused-german-mine-l...

The salt mine was deemed to be safe for thousands of years. But then people discovered ingress of water. And salt water is corrosive.

I am sure that we will experience very expensive disasters with nuclear storage the next few thousand years.

We should never have used nuclear power in large scale.

Edit: And we should shut down coal, too. It's not about nuclear vs coal but nuclear vs renewables.


The Asse is a people problem, caused by incompetence. Look who is responsible for it, if you like to ;)

Furthermore, to my knowledge there is no higly radioactive stuff stored down there, just some recklessly offloaded cans with cleaning clothes, and such. Again, incompetence and recklessness.

As of now, anything highly radioactive is stored above ground in 'Castor' either under clear skies, or light halls there, or as 'Zwischenlager' on the grounds of NPPs, maybe sometimes exported to make it a problem of other people, as usual...

Anyways, we could possibly transmutate it, like it is researched in Mol, Belgium, 'burn' its full potential in liquid-salt reactors, whatever. This whole longterm storage concept is shizophrenic thinking, because we didn't really research nuclear further, after we had working reactors based on (upscaled)military applications for economic, political, whatever reasons.

I am sure that we will experience very expensive disasters with renewable energy in the next few dozen years.

edit: Another thing regarding long term storage in 'geologic times'. If some group in 100.000 years. or later comes across this, and doesn't know how to handle it, why should I care about those stupid morons?

For all I care they discovered the curse of the atomic pharaos, and deserve it! Degraded bitches!

F-U-C-K-I-N-G-D-E-A-L-W-I-T-H-I-T!


All the nuclear waste the US has ever produced fits in a football field at a height of around 30 feet.


but, if coal burning continues to pump out carbon dioxide into our atmosphere and eventually completely upend any semblance of stable environment... wouldn’t it be preferred to make not doing that a priority?


It's not about nuclear vs coal but about nuclear vs renewables.

Just shut down both coal and nuclear!


And what happens when there's a storm? Renewables alone can't provide all the power needed over extended periods of time without very significant storage, for which there is no large scale cost effective solution actually implemented.


Nuclear power also shuts down when there's significant disruption from nature. Nuclear power even might do something even worse than shutting down.


It took a tsunami on an unmaintained nuclear power plant to cause Fukushima.

It took the russians lifting off _every single security mechanism_ to cause Chernobyl.

The ojer major incidents like Three Mile Island are just "well, security measures have failed, we didn't have enough fallbacks. It's broken now. Light irradiation around but nothing major".

So, no, nuclear power doesn't stop for anything but the absolute worst conditions. As for the "doing even worse" part, two can play that game: hydro is renewable and yet killed hundreds of thousands. Oh no, stop hydro!


The problem are the future accidents with the left-overs of nuclear. They are simply uncountable because these are in the future.


Advanced radio chemistry will produce meta-materials which will enable time travel. Problem solved! Wheeee!




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